From Connections to Conversions - LinkedIn Growth Hacks with Indrek Põldvee

Andy Splichal:

Welcome to another exciting episode of the Make Each Click Count podcast where we dive into the world of online marketing, e commerce and all things digital strategy. Today we have a very special guest joining us. He is the LinkedIn guru of Estonia, Indrek. Indirect is the founder of B2B Growth, a Microsoft partner agency specializing in LinkedIn optimization. With over 100 LinkedIn trainings and thousands of profile makeovers under his belt, Indirect has helped countless businesses and businesses unlock the power of LinkedIn to grow their networks and to generate leads. He is also the co founder of a startup, Sari, as a service which he has sold. Indirect's impressive client list includes names like pipedrive, DEP uk, transferwise and British Telecom. All right, get ready to learn something about LinkedIn strategies today.

Andy Splichal:

Indrek. Hey, welcome to the show.

Indrek Põldvee:

Yeah, we're happy to be here and thank you, Andy for reminding me.

Andy Splichal:

You know, we're excited to have you. Now you have been called Mr. LinkedIn Estonia. So what initially drew you to specializing in LinkedIn as a platform for B2B growth?

Indrek Põldvee:

So my background is in sales, have been mostly working with companies, so. And I love to sell the companies and I don't, I'm not very good in B2C sales. Like as a salesman, I, I really don't like it to sell like as a, as an end customer, so to say to regular people because I always feel like, oh, they put their last money and then I feel like guilty. But for businesses, it's amazing because they, I love to, I love to sell the businesses because they have bigger money and bigger deals. So LinkedIn is the best platform for business to business sales and outreach. And then Estonia is such a small country and I saw the opportunity here because it was not utilized as the way it's possible and that's why we started to specialize only in LinkedIn. And that's the story how we have evolved and grown here.

Andy Splichal:

So tell us a bit more about B2B growth and the services you offer to help businesses optimize their LinkedIn business.

Indrek Põldvee:

Yeah, so we are quite straightforward. As you mentioned, we focus only on LinkedIn. And what, what is the differentiator with others? Is we start with the strategy or we start the question, do you even need to be in LinkedIn and why do you need to be there? It's not like, not everybody, oh, we need to have LinkedIn. But actually a lot of companies and people, they have never thought about why should I be there or what should I do even there. So it's not that easy because you need to know your strategy, you need to know who's your target audience. You need to know because if you know your target audience and then you can make content for them, like what they want to read and what is valuable for them. Not just generate content with AI and just it's not about post, it's not about quantity of posting, it's a quality of the posting. And this is what we do and this is, this is where we help our customers to grow.

Indrek Põldvee:

Like, let's dig a little bit deeper, like why you need that? Even if, do you even need it and maybe you don't need it. That is also very good outcome.

Andy Splichal:

So what are, what are some reasons that companies or people do need or should be on LinkedIn?

Indrek Põldvee:

Yeah, so most of the times, like the main thing is that we also work with B2B companies. The main thing especially depending on the size, let's say 500 plus people, the main reasons to be in LinkedIn is recruiting. Because also I think in US, like LinkedIn said, like 80 to 90% of people are recruited, office workers are recruited through LinkedIn. And then also the thing is people follow people. So you need to make content, you need to be seen, so to say, as a thought leader in LinkedIn, you need to be vocal about it because people want to work with amazing people together. And this is something I feel a lot of companies don't know how to do. They are posting about their products, look how amazing we are, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And they feel they don't do the human touch and they don't know how to do it.

Indrek Põldvee:

And this is something that we are teaching them or we do it for them, so to say.

Andy Splichal:

So very interesting. So talking about the human touch, I mean, you got Facebook, people are putting pictures up of what they had for dinner and their dogs. How does that differ? LinkedIn has always been more business, like. So I guess my question is, how do you get the human touch in there with remaining in that kind of business like frame.

Indrek Põldvee:

So, so that's a, that's a really, really, really good question. And, and it's a, it's a, it's a balancing. Balancing act. So for example, when I mentioned that we start with a strategy. Let's now take a company page right now. I, I don't talk about the personal page right now. Let's take the company pages because if we see a lot of companies are struggling with it and, and if we take the company page and first we need to determine what is the reason for the company page. And let's say it's employer branding.

Indrek Põldvee:

That the question that you asked how to add a human touch. So how we have added like if you know that it's a, it's. We want to build employer branding in that company and then show them we are starting to make content about their people who work in those companies. So who is the CEO and not only like hey this is the CEO, look at him. But actually in some one company right now we are working in three different countries CEOs and we introduced them and all of them like fishing for example. So we put some fishing pictures, we put some holiday pictures and also we put like serious pictures. So we are showing one person in different views and showing a little bit more and exposing them to other. Not only like it doesn't need to be always serious but also adding some what hobbies and etc they like to do.

Indrek Põldvee:

And then also we are sharing a lot of events where what they do for their own employees, how to celebrate some milestones with their customers etc. So we are showing these kinds of. How can I say what happens in the office so to say. And this is how we see that people really really like it because people always love pictures where other people are and especially because you know these people and then you are living together with them, you're supporting them. So that's one of the ways.

Andy Splichal:

What about individuals? I mean that's great for companies. You're giving them kind of an inside look inside the company. But what about individuals? What is that line as far as keeping IT business and LinkedIn opposed to Facebook where you, you really get into your personal life.

Indrek Põldvee:

Yeah. So for, for us like we, we determined that I really like the. To say like that Facebook is entertainment, LinkedIn is business. So the line is also there. So. Yeah, exactly. So the line is there. Like again this is, this is my experience.

Indrek Põldvee:

People don't need to agree with it. But for example with posting like in Covid time we I saw a lot of posts like people also started to do post about their pets and etc and look at my pet and but they had a story like for me also so I'm also I did a couple of poster with my dog but but but the story behind it is business minded because I got the dog because I saw I was too much in the office. I didn't go out as much, I didn't walk so much so I took a talk and now every day I need to spend minimum three hours a day outside and play with my dog because if I don't do it the consequences are something I don't want to I don't want to deal with the thing. So again I'm putting my own story and my own mindset how I deal with if I don't go outside I sort of say solve the problem so that I took a talk I have a friend I have so what I recommend there is have some personal story but tied it with a valuable lesson or what are the key takeaways. And this is how you don't only show like hey I had this for dinner but actually you're telling a story about your mindset showing something very personal and people always love pets and animals et cetera like pictures also. But you don't do it very often. You don't do like every second post about your dog. So so that is also in LinkedIn what is really really important Quality is always better than quantity.

Indrek Põldvee:

Having really quality post and content. And what also works in LinkedIn is commenting other people post where you are authentic and also you give them advice, et cetera. So these are the couple of things you need to do because I see a lot of people they make content but the content is made right now a lot with AI and et cetera.

Andy Splichal:

That was going to be the next question I have is what do you think about AI generated content in LinkedIn and even AI comedy using comments for on others post in LinkedIn.

Indrek Põldvee:

Yeah so so again AI is here here to stay. It doesn't go anywhere. It's only getting smarter and better. So we also use AI. Like maybe 70 to 80% of the post is written by AI but the last 10 20% is done by humans still because for English is not my natural language and when I do post with AI the AI uses words that I cannot even pronounce and people know that I'm not that smart when I use those words and they feel it's mechanical. Also there are some people who make amazing posts with AI, but they have amazing prompts and they know how to use them. So again, I think average skill level for most people who use AI and do content is not the very highest level, so to say. And that content, especially people when they read it, they know it's written by a.

Indrek Põldvee:

And the same is the commenting. Because I was in another podcast and and then the host said like he made a link post about it in LinkedIn and then there was a one guy commented, they made a summary of his posts and the comment was basically that it ended with a question that wasn't actually a question for him, like. Like he knew it was AI and he bl that guy from LinkedIn because he knew that he wanted attention and because people still understand when it's AI made and when it's not. So what I recommend here is use AI, but still personalize with your own human touch because it makes a huge, huge difference and it will go a long way. And also the thing is how LinkedIn algorithm works. LinkedIn measures how long one person reads your post. Not the interactions, but how long does it read. And if they understand and they see that your post is made with only AI, they will skip it very fast and then your post don't get so much reach.

Andy Splichal:

Also interesting, now You've trained over 3,000 people in LinkedIn strategies and completed over a thousand profile makeovers. I guess I'm curious, what are some of the common mistakes when you go into a LinkedIn account that you almost always see in somebody's account?

Indrek Põldvee:

Yeah, so the main thing again here where we start is why do you even have a LinkedIn account? I'm very proud to say that after my trainings there are people also who have deleted their accounts. So I'm very proud of that. I think like 50 or 60 people have deleted. So the common mistakes are they don't take it seriously. Like they think, oh, I put some picture and that's it. But no, for us, one makeover takes about eight to 10 hours. And what is the mistakes? The mistakes is there is no background pictures. The background picture they put.

Indrek Põldvee:

Some people put some random pictures, some people also put some forest picture. But actually you need to understand LinkedIn is a business environment. In LinkedIn you are representing the company you work for. So I always recommend like, especially when we go to companies have key people, the backgrounds with the company colors and some tagline because you are representing that company. And also most of the times the company is better known than you. So use leverage your company's reputation by using their Branding and you get more connection invitations. If you work for Apple and people understand you work for Apple then trust me, your connection acceptance rate goes much higher. So that is one of the things, the background image then the profile picture, profile picture needs to be 70 to 80% your face and current phase, not the phase that you had 2005.

Indrek Põldvee:

So trust me, people change over time. So also keep your so to say profile picture current because people recognize you there. And it's really important because LinkedIn especially in US was mainly used when you go to conferences, when you go to seminars, people say like let don't exchange business cards but let's exchange LinkedIn. And then you guys also have that sometimes with the same name you have, there are five, six, seven people and then the person is right in front of you and you don't recognize him because the profile picture is really really bad, low quality. So that is, that happens also. And the last thing, there are many things but the last thing is your headline. The headline what you have under your name. A lot of people put there I'm a CEO of Non dynamic or CEO of X company or something like that or project manager at that company.

Indrek Põldvee:

Most people, 90% of people have never, never heard about the company you work for. So why do you put that project manager? It doesn't show what is the value that you bring me. So the headline under your picture should be what is the value that you can you bring to your ideal customers?

Andy Splichal:

Give an example of that.

Indrek Põldvee:

Yeah, exactly. So for example if I'm a sales coach, so say or I do LinkedIn trainings or something like that then my headline is helping Companies to unlock LinkedIn by proven methods of, I don't know, some ex organic growth or something like that. Or for example we have like a company owner who is in the shipping industry. He looks extremely young. He's actually 45, but he's still young. But he's very young. But the shipping industry is run by 50, 60, 70 year old people. It's very old fashioned.

Indrek Põldvee:

And he had this challenge that when he goes to meetings they say hey you're so young, what do you know? Or something like that. But actually he's built a multimillion million business. But now we put his headline 25 years of experience in marine and shipping industry. Then the next line is that he's also entrepreneur of year in Estonia and etc. So we put some validation headlines, so to say sentences. Then when people read it they understand he knows his shit, he's an expert in his field. So this is the thing, because your profile, when people do not know you, they look at your profile 3 to 7 seconds. In 3 to 7 seconds they need to understand I want to talk with Andy Moore or if I don't understand, I go away.

Indrek Põldvee:

So that is the thing. It's the same optimization basically what you do with your website. If I come to your website and in the first three, four seconds I do not understand what product or service you offer, I go away, you lose me. The same is with your LinkedIn account. Your LinkedIn account is your website. And you need to understand with your profile. Your profile is not for you, it is for people who do not know you. And you need to be in control of the narrative that you want them to know about you.

Indrek Põldvee:

What is the most important thing that they would get to know you. And you need to think your ideal customer. So that's why again I go back to the strategy, etc. Who is the audience, what you want to tell them, etc. Etc. So sorry it went a little bit long, but I hope.

Andy Splichal:

No, I, that's, that's a great tip. You know, so besides mistakes, I mean when people are using LinkedIn, what do you find are maybe some under rated features of LinkedIn that not many people use?

Indrek Põldvee:

No. Oh, it's difficult to say. It's so one of the things, especially with the personal profiles, what I see that people don't use is, is a section called Features and the feature section is there you can put links, you can put your YouTube, sorry YouTube links or whatever you want to put there, case studies. And, and the thing is what, what it does is when you go to somebody's profile and they have some, two, three things in the, in the feature section it pops out, they can, they can look at it, they can, they can see it. So that, that's, that these are just a profile for profile. Make it, make it more visible and more, more nice. And then I think also what people do not know how to use very well is LinkedIn search and sales Navigator.

Andy Splichal:

Which I really, I was going to ask that was going to be the next thing I asked is how important is Sales Navigator.

Indrek Põldvee:

So, so now it depends your job role. But let's say if you are, you are business to B2B sales, sales manager, account manager or whatever than B2B sales or partnerships, then I would say that the Sales Navigator is a must, but only if you know how to use it. There is no point of taking a Sales Navigator license if it just. You look at the button. Oh, I have the golden button in LinkedIn and I never use it. That's a waste of money. But I can say that with only one or two filters. For example, if you're looking for your ideal customers and you get a result like 10,000 people or 5,000 people, with only one filter, you can make that 10, 5,000 people list to 1,000 people list.

Indrek Põldvee:

And then going through 5,000 people and going through 1,000 people, you will save a lot of hours and time. So there are amazing filters in Sales Navigator that will save countless of hours. And if you, if you calculate that Sales navigator maybe costs 100 or $150 a month and you put it in your own hours, I'm pretty sure like most B2B sales people, the hour is worth more than $50 an hour. And if you save one to two hours per week using Sales Navigator, it's already paid itself. Like, you win a lot of time, but you need to know how to use that. Is that, that's a simple version.

Andy Splichal:

You know, there's not a lot of people out there teaching Sales Navigator. I mean, I know LinkedIn, but you don't really. I haven't really seen a lot of stuff on like YouTube where, where would people start with that?

Indrek Põldvee:

No, to be honest, that they are again, like I, the thing is also in LinkedIn, like I follow a lot of other LinkedIn trainers and gurus and etc, like, and I get so much LinkedIn content in my feed, so I always think like, who needs another LinkedIn trainer? Like, oh really?

Andy Splichal:

Okay, so there is a lot.

Indrek Põldvee:

Yeah, yeah, there are tons. But, but again, like if I, if I speak people out of my industry, then again, I understand they don't get the same content as I do. So. So the best way to start with Sales Navigator 1 is again, like there is the thing LinkedIn Learning. LinkedIn Learning has some good overview. So Sales navigator, but also YouTube is, is a very good source or they can just contact me because again, like it's, it takes time to learn Sales Navigator. But trust me, when you know how to use let's say like six or seven different filters and you can do the right searches, you will save countless of hours. To be honest, like I really, really, really have seen multiple people.

Indrek Põldvee:

Like they, they do searches like three, four hours and then you get the really bad results or you get like over a thousand people. But just plugging in one filter for example, is called show people that have posted in the last 30 days. And we use that filter the most because these are the people. If you have all other criteria also written down and show me who have posted something in the last 30 days. These people are more active in LinkedIn and there is a lot higher chance that these people will accept your connection request and also that they will start to talk with you. Also they are making content so you can start socially selling them by looking what content they make and then adding valuable comments to those people and building relationships like that. And only that filter is worth paying 200 or $150 a month. Only that filter.

Indrek Põldvee:

And there are so many other things there also.

Andy Splichal:

Yeah, you know, that's a, that's a great point of being able to really filter out those that are active on LinkedIn because I find a lot of people aren't, you know, they've created a LinkedIn account and maybe they're, they're going to look at it, you know, maybe once a month, maybe once every three months. I mean, never. So I think that that's a great filter. So with your.

Indrek Põldvee:

I'm just adding here that that LinkedIn actually shared like 90 to 95% of LinkedIn users never comment or post or do anything in LinkedIn. They just read. And that is also why I mentioned before why the content in LinkedIn matters a lot, especially the quality. Because LinkedIn measures, they know that a lot of people don't comment. So they measure the time, how much they are spending in one post. The more time they read your post, the more reach the your post will start getting because LinkedIn sees that your content is so valuable that it brings in people to see and they want to spend more time.

Andy Splichal:

Interesting. Yeah, you know, let's, let's talk about that. So your agency is, you have on there that you can achieve 2 to 6 times organic growth for your clients in 4 to 6 months. Now with the organic growth, how are you measuring that? Is that reach impressions? I mean how, how are you, how are you measuring it and what tactics are you using to get these results?

Indrek Põldvee:

Yeah, so, so we just did a competitor analyzation for, for one of our, our customers here in Estonia. Like and, and it's really cool to see the results because in eight months we did basically the same amount of posts, but our post performed three times better. Like they get better engagement than the other other other company posts. And when we see why is the reason, the main reason is because we are extremely consistent and we use formats that LinkedIn loves. So what I mean by that is when I see our competitors, what they do, they do so that most of the times the marketing or Person or whoever is responsible for the accounts. They have so much work. Sometimes they post one times a week, sometimes they post two times a week and sometimes they post three times a week. Then one week they don't post at all.

Indrek Põldvee:

What we are, what we do is we create the system that every week we have minimum two posts, minimum two things. We post always pretty much on the same time and every week. And we are teaching the algorithm that we are consistent and we are active on LinkedIn.

Andy Splichal:

It takes about how important is that to increasing reach?

Indrek Põldvee:

Oh that is huge important. So what we see that LinkedIn really, really, really values that you are consistent and, and doing because for one customer we didn't do we. Our collaboration was stopped for a couple of months and now we are starting again and we see the reach is down by 50% that we had previously.

Andy Splichal:

Because how long does it take being consistent before you start seeing.

Indrek Põldvee:

Depending on the account, but most of the times like about six months to retrain.

Andy Splichal:

Well, you have to be patient then.

Indrek Põldvee:

Oh yeah. So and also that the metrics that you ask what, what, what we are measuring is the KPIs for. For most of the. That's personal and company pages is comments and post shares. So one comment that is longer than 10 words equals to 15 likes. So wow. Exactly.

Andy Splichal:

That's good enough.

Indrek Põldvee:

So, so, yeah, so so. And that, that is so personal and so it's not always like that, but that's the average. So to say that we see. So we are not measuring how many followers we are getting and et cetera. These are impressions. These are really good metrics just to have. But the main thing is because I see accounts that have million of followers but their engagement is lower than some of our companies that have 500 followers. So we have one company that has 500 followers and some of his posts are getting 2, 300 likes.

Indrek Põldvee:

And then I go to companies that have 1 million followers and they might get like 100 likes or 50 likes or something like that and then no comments. So our company pages, I have like 3, 4, 5 comments etc. So we are measuring comments because the comments are so important because I mentioned 1 equals to 10 to 15 likes plus the reach of the post gets at least 3 or 4 times better reach there with the commenting then with likes. And also shares are really, really working really well right now. And how you achieve that, especially when you work in a bigger companies, you need to train your employees that we need to support LinkedIn growth. So in the beginning it starts with your employees. They start to comment. And also it's for personal.

Indrek Põldvee:

If you as a sales executive, CEO, hr, whatever, you start to do your post, you share it with your colleagues. They know that, hey, let's support you with our commenting. And the thing is people feel, in the beginning especially people feel like it's fake. Oh my God, I need to comment my own colleague or I need to comment on my own company, they feel it's fake, I don't want to do it. But how you get over it, one is training and the other thing have better quality content. If the content is quality, then and for example, you share a case study or something like that. And then basically Andy comments, wow, this is really great. And then you share maybe, hey John, look at this, they got these kinds of results.

Indrek Põldvee:

Or if you work in that, then you can tag somebody in that company that you work together that hey, was amazing working with you and thanks for trusting us or something like that. You put that kind of a comment which doesn't feel fake anymore because as I mentioned, most companies do really shit content. They do like, hey, look at us, we are so great. Or look at our new product. Nobody wants to comment. Yes, our product is great. Nobody especially. Only if you're the founder or something like that, then you only want to comment like that.

Indrek Põldvee:

But it's not authentic. Sometimes yes, they trust their products, but again LinkedIn, nobody cares about your product. You need to build trust with their audience. And trust building takes time.

Andy Splichal:

Now you had mentioned followers, when you post something on LinkedIn, what percentage is just served to followers? And when might your post appear for. For people who don't follow your LinkedIn page?

Indrek Põldvee:

Yeah, so, so again like this is this, this difference on the pages quite a lot, but on average, so this is what LinkedIn said, that if your post gets 10% or 15% of impressions then of the followers, then it's already a good post. So that means like for example, if you have thousand followers and Your post gets 100 to 200 views, then it's already a good post, so to say. But not everybody will see the post when you post it. So your followers or your personal page, how it works is the most recent people who have liked your content, they will see at first. And as we see also LinkedIn measures in the first two hours, the more comments, the more likes, the more shares your post will get, the more the post will start to organically grow. And that's why again, comments are so, so crucial. Because if I post something and you, Andy, comment on it, then your followers will see Your comment and my post. And then people who never heard about me, they will also see my, they will start to see, okay, Andy commented, I trust Andy.

Indrek Põldvee:

Andy is really cool guy that I want to. And the comment was really long. So I want to know who is this Indra and why he commented, etc. Or the other way around. Andy post something, Indra comments, something valuable, then my followers will see your post. And the same is with company pages and, and this is how it works and this is how you get the new people to see your content. But now the key is, and this is something not a lot of people think about it, a lot of people in LinkedIn with personal pages, they have built really bad networks because they in their network. When you start, let's say you do a new personal profile today, you start to add people who are your former colleagues, university friends, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Indrek Põldvee:

But the question is, are they your ideal audience? Most of the time they are not.

Andy Splichal:

And this is, you know, that's another big difference between LinkedIn and Facebook right there.

Indrek Põldvee:

Yes, exactly. And this is something that you need to really think about it. Like people say, oh, start commenting and doing. But now the question is do the right people see your content and building and building a network of the right people, that takes a lot of time and then you need to know who the right people are, etc. Etc. Etc.

Andy Splichal:

So let's talk before we go here, let's talk a little bit about B2B growth, your company.

Indrek Põldvee:

Yeah.

Andy Splichal:

What, what are you guys doing there? And who should be interested if they're out there listening.

Indrek Põldvee:

So as our talk has been misty, LinkedIn so this is what we do. We are specializing 100 on LinkedIn platform and everything we just talked, this is what we do. We come in, we, we do trainings, we do strategies, we take over personal accounts, company accounts and make content, can generate leads, etc. So this is, this is, this is all what we do. And this is our specialization and who should be interested, these companies who really want to make LinkedIn work for them. And I'm more than happy whoever reaches out to do a free profile audit, whoever wants that, a couple of, couple of audits and more than happy to share feedback, how you can improve, what can you do and then we take it from there.

Andy Splichal:

And how can people contact you?

Indrek Põldvee:

So the easiest way is hit me up in LinkedIn or from our website, P2B Growth.

Andy Splichal:

Well, this has been great. Is there anything else you'd like to add before we wrap it up today?

Indrek Põldvee:

No, I just want to say really, really appreciate to be in this podcast and answering your questions. I really hope it was interesting for you also and really amazing that you do the podcast because it's I think one of the best ways to learn. So thank you for doing that.

Andy Splichal:

Well, thank you for joining us today. Indirect for Listeners Remember, if you like this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts, leave us an honest review and if you would like to connect with indirect or B2B growth, you will find the links in the show notes below. In addition, if you're looking for more information on growing your business, check out our Podcast Resource center available at podcast.makeeachclickout.com we have compiled all of our different past guests by show topic and include each of the contact information in case you would like more information. Any of the services discussed during previous episodes. Well, that's it for today. Remember to stay safe, keep healthy and happy marketing and I'll talk to you in the next episode.