Simplifying U.S. Sales Tax Compliance for E - Commerce Sellers with Reuben Mattinson

Andy Splichal:

Welcome to another episode of the make each Click Count podcast. I'm your host, Andy Splichal. And today we're diving into the world of Ecommerce tax compliance, something that's essential yet overwhelming for online sellers. Joining us today is Reuben Mattinson, the founder and leader of RJM Tax Exemption. Ruben has had an incredible journey, starting in healthcare, then working as a high school science teacher and eventually growing his own e commerce business. Today, RJM tax exemption has grown from five to 50 employees in just over two years and has helped over 1,000 businesses navigate the complexity of UX tax law. Ruben team specializes simplifying sales tax compliance for non US and US sellers alike. And they've earned five star rating on trustpilot while saving their clients time, money and stress.

Andy Splichal:

Whether you're a seasoned online seller or just starting out, you won't want to miss today's insights on how to make tax compliance easy and profitable. All right, welcome to the show, Ruben.

Reuben Mattinson:

Andy, great to be here.

Andy Splichal:

So let's start. I mean, your journey is, is unique. You started in healthcare and then you were a teacher and now, and then you had E commerce and now you're working in tax compliance. I mean, can you share how this, how, how did you transition into the world of E commerce?

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, basically. I think I always wanted to help people, which is kind of what sent me down the path of healthcare and teaching and youth work and that kind of stuff. But I always had like an unscratchable itch to start my own business and to sell things online as well. So I think I put it off as long as possible, but eventually kind of dived into selling products myself in the US about five, six years ago. And that was kind of while I was teaching at the same time, you know, playing it safe, like I don't want to fully jump out yet and you know, in case I'm not successful. So basically in doing that I realized all of these hoops you had to jump through to sell in the U.S. all of the complexities. I had a lot of people coming to me in communities asking for help and they saw that I had done it and kind of basically through that realized there was a bit of a niche there and a bit of a service which could help people and a bit of a need.

Reuben Mattinson:

So basically just off the back of that, started to kind of get the right people around me, built a team and transitioned out of teaching into that. Yeah.

Andy Splichal:

So you've grown our JM tax exemption from five to 50 employees in two years. And I mean that's just huge growth. What are some of the key strategies behind being able to grow so rapidly?

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, I mean I think in the early days it was about getting the right business partnerships, you know, the right people who had the right clientele and audience who could benefit from our services. I think the key to our initial big growth as well was that we were offering like a no brainer service really. So when you become tax exempt as a, a reseller, as a business, you start saving money straight away. So when you're not tax exempt, you're paying sales tax when you purchase products to resell them and then the people who are buying products off you are paying sales tax. So we were basically just saving people all of that money from day one. So people were making their money back on our service very quickly. So I guess we were saving people time and money. So for people they were, you know, just kind of no brainer to join us.

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, so.

Andy Splichal:

So explain that a little bit more. So you're helping companies become not have to pay the tax but the end customer pays it. What, what's the service?

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, so we do lots of services. That service in particular is the tax exemption service, which is obviously our name and where we started. And basically if you're reselling products online in America, as a reseller, you don't require to pay sales tax on the purchase of your products that you're going to be reselling. And the whole point of that is obviously the US trying to not allow double taxation to happen when it doesn't need to happen. So you're right in saying it's actually just the end user who is then buying the product off you, who is to be paying the sales tax. And that's again according to where they live and a lot of other kind of bits and bobs which I'm sure we'll get into later. But yeah, I think some people don't realize that they don't need to be paying that initially when they start their business.

Andy Splichal:

How many people don't realize that? I mean is this newer sellers that just assume they're going to be paying it or is it Amazon stores that have been around a while? Is it regular stores? I'm curious.

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, you see a mix of all of them only to be honest. But I think the most common you see are people who are drop shipping from different suppliers. So they may just have their own website or their own Shopify store, their own business and they're purchasing products which are being sent straight from the supply to their clients and Maybe that's even like a print on demand company, let's say, who's printing their logo and their branding on whatever it is, mugs, T shirts, books, whatever. Like a company like Gelato, which I'm not sure if you've heard of or not. So with companies like that, they just automatically will charge you sales tax. And a lot of people don't realize there's a lot of back office functions built into these resellers and platforms. Or if you upload the right sales tax certificates, you get the right registrations, you can literally cut all of your sales tax off straight away. And I mean the average sales tax across all of the states is around 7%.

Reuben Mattinson:

So straight away you save 7% on all of your gross purchases, which on the gross purchase is way bigger on your net margin. So people can see their margins even double their profit margins double overnight from, from getting tax exempt.

Andy Splichal:

Now if you are a manufacturer who's putting the pieces together and then reselling it, do you need to pay sales tax on that?

Reuben Mattinson:

So as in if you're the manufacturer of the product itself.

Andy Splichal:

Correct? Yeah, yeah.

Reuben Mattinson:

So you again, I guess if you're sourcing parts for your products, people again would just need to make those suppliers aware of their sales tax registrations. So again, you shouldn't have to. And again, I guess that's something that people could miss and not give the right registrations to those, you know, wholesalers that are giving them the parts to make the product. But again, yeah, you shouldn't have to pay sales tax in that scenario.

Andy Splichal:

So why is US sales tax compliance such a challenging issue for, for E commerce businesses?

Reuben Mattinson:

I think because it's increased in complexity over time. You know, as laws have changed, we've kind of transitioned into this kind of more online aware era where companies, website states wherever are clocking that it's not just where you live or where your business is established or where your staff are, it's actually a lot about the places you are selling the products to. So you know, we've moved from kind of just this physical nexus where you would think, oh well, I'm registered in Texas, I just get sales tax in Texas to now this kind of economic nexus where states are expecting you to be registered according to if you just sell to their citizens in their state. And I guess to add to that complexity, every state has different thresholds, different rules, different regulations, different laws. And we know we have plenty of states to deal with across the US So I guess the complexity comes with that.

Andy Splichal:

You know, I always thought and it's probably incorrect. Yeah. That if you are a smaller business and you're just selling inside your state, like I'm in California, you just have to pay California tax. But so there's different thresholds depending on how much you're selling in what state.

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, exactly. So you could just be a relatively small business based in California where you, you know, you sell most of your products to California, but you then also sell products to a few other states as well. You can cross thresholds due to again, just even the number of products you could be selling quite cheap products. But if you just sell maybe a couple of hundred in a calendar year, you can cross thresholds. You know, if you again as I mentioned, have staff that are working or even selling or advertising your products in different states, you can cross like what's called affiliate nexus. So there are quite a lot of complexities of the different rules linked to this whole nexus idea and threshold idea. And it's developing as states are becoming more savvy of the online business world.

Andy Splichal:

So we talked a little bit about getting exemption for buying, but what are some of the other mistakes that you see companies make with their, with their tax, either collecting it or paying too much or what are some of the other common mistakes?

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, I'd say the two big ones, Andy, are probably firstly just kind of being a little bit ignorant in thinking, you know, because I'm selling online and I don't have a physical presence, I don't need to collect sales tax. And then they've sold loads of products to estate and they've not collected the sales tax and now they owe a big sales tax bill to estate, so that's quite common. And then have to back pay that bill even though they out of their own pocket because they've not done their settings right on their website or their platform to collect the sales tax at point of purchase. So that's a bit tricky. But you do see as well the kind of overly astute and careful clients who just tick all of the boxes say on Shopify that they're selling on to collect sales tax in all of the states from Taiwan and they start just collecting huge amounts of sales tax and they don't need to be. And what that does is it basically makes all of their products look way more expensive than they need to because when people come to purchase their product from their store, sales taxes being slapped onto it when it doesn't need to be. So they realize, actually when they can realize which states they can turn those off at, they can attract customers More to buy their products because they're at a cheaper purchase point without the sales tax.

Andy Splichal:

So you had mentioned that when you started you were in in the UK and you were selling products inside the US market. And so I saw that that's still one of your guys services that you work with non US based companies and how to sell their products in the US and get them set up. What, what's required to do that? To sell your products from outside the U.S. in the U.S. yeah, we do, yeah.

Reuben Mattinson:

It's a fairly popular service. Firstly, you've got to get your employee identification number ein and that can be linked to your personal identity as a non US citizen or it can be just linked to your entity. There's lots of different ways to go about it, but the most common pathway people often choose is to get a US company formed because it's relatively simple in a state with relatively low fees and no state tax to pay, let's say Wyoming and then they'll develop, you know, the EIN number off that business. So they've got like a presence in the US within reason because of a registered agent office and they've got their identification number to function and to do business. And then you can get a US bank account as well to kind of add credibility and to lower your fees. Because if you're trying to pay and receive from a foreign bank account you can get extra fees. So we can help with that. And that's a typical pathway.

Reuben Mattinson:

And then once that's done again it's just the case of registering to the right states according to where they're selling to, where they want to hold their products, who they're working with. So yeah, the way we do it is we kind of just cover all of the bases and make it very stress free for people. But that's your typical route in. And I guess having a US company as a non US citizen doesn't just give you credibility but gives you like an extra layer of protection. You know, if there's lawsuits or things that go wrong, it's not just going straight to you as a personal sole trader. You have kind of a layer and an entity before it comes to that.

Andy Splichal:

How do you set up a US based company if you're not in the US without a physical location?

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, very simple and very common practice. You would just use a registered agent to do that who has an address based in that state and a kind of a registered office address which is quite typical and quite normal, very low fees to do that. So you can again choose which state for that to be in according to maybe what's beneficial for you. And an EIN number is very quick to get. You can also get what's called an ITIN number, which is like the equivalent of a Social Security number for a foreign based person in business. And that can kind of help you as well, kind of getting across the board with getting bank accounts and other things. And we help with that as well. But you don't always need that.

Reuben Mattinson:

And they can be a little bit more lengthy to get. So some people choose to not go down that path.

Andy Splichal:

And then you can set up a bank account based on that physical address just online or you're calling in or.

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, exactly. So you, you can have this kind of registered virtual office address which your bank account can be opened through. Again, we have particular partnerships with particular banks and particular ways of doing that. You know, some banks are stricter and want someone to kind of be foot to the floor in the US So obviously know the kind of, the legal ways around that and the kind of ways to expedite that and make that quicker for non US based clients as well.

Andy Splichal:

Do you get mail? I guess I'm just thinking of a P.O. box. It's never checked and it's covered with cobwebs or junk mail.

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah. So the way we do that for our non US clients, they have a service where the mail will be sent to and it'll be received and it basically will just be opened and scanned and uploaded. So they have like a really nice just dashboard online dashboard. They can see their mail which has been scanned and uploaded and then they can choose to have that mail forwarded to them physically if they need to. But most of the time having that online version scanned is fine to work with.

Andy Splichal:

What does the address look like? I'm just obsessed. 123 Main street in Cheyenne, Wyoming.

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, no, it's pretty standard address. I mean what will separate your address to two other people would just be a suite number. Typically, you know, you can kind of have more PO Box style ones as well, but we go for more kind of sweet ones because the address is just a bit more reputable. But it'll just look like the run of the mill kind of address. But again your business name being on it and your suite number will be linked to you and your entity and that's how your mail will be separated that way.

Andy Splichal:

Now if you want to sell stuff on Amazon and you're not in the U.S. do you need a us? I mean, do you need to go through this or can you use an Outside US address and a non US bank account.

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, so you can, if it's just Amazon, they have a pretty well built in system to kind of getting around it. You will still need an EIN number, an employee identification number which I mentioned, but you can still do that just under a sole trader position which I mentioned. And through a foreign bank account you'll just be hit with more fees when Amazon come to pay you if it's not into a U.S. account. And you can kind of maybe not have that extra layer of security which I was talking about. If you have a US entity, if there's issues and someone had a problem of your product and some health problem happened or some big issue, people would come straight to you. So it's kind of looking at that extra layer of protection you can have.

Andy Splichal:

Now back to back to US sellers. I mean since COVID since 2020, e commerce sales have just skyrocketed and a lot of E commerce companies, they've been scaling or they plan to scale. What advice would you give them to be able to scale but still remain tax compliant?

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, I mean my biggest advice would be to start early with it because I think the worst thing you can do is try and put it off and think, oh, I've not got the money to be compliant, I'll just get compliant when I have more profit. But then actually realize you then got a huge bill to pay in the future because you've left it and you've got now loads of states to register to, loads of backlog of filing to do, loads of sales tax to pay. So I would say with scalability you just want to do it nice and steady. And I think a lot of people don't realize the cost in being sales tax compliant at the start of your business is actually very cheap because if you're not selling at a huge volume and you're just starting out, you won't have a lot of states to register to, you won't have a lot of thresholds and you won't have much filing to do. So your growth is going to be almost equivalent to the cost of your compliance. So actually if you just do it along from the start through your growth, when you have more money, you'll just naturally register to those states because you're making more sales. So it's kind of like what comes first, the compliance or the profit? Well, your profit is going to be there because you're making the gross sales and then you'll need to register to more states. So yeah, for me scalability is just get on it at the start and don't procrastinate with it.

Andy Splichal:

Now, if you're selling products just through Amazon Us, does Amazon take care of all the taxes for the different states? Do they withhold those taxes and pay them on your behalf?

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah. So Amazon are really good what they do. Now when it comes to that. There are a few kind of exceptions where some states, they still want you to register to their state and file what's called a gross filing with a deduction. So you're still telling that state personally how many sales you've made and then you claim a deduction. So you don't pay the sales tax because Amazon have already done it, but they want it to show that it matches up with what Amazon is saying. And then there are a few other, again, slight exceptions of registrations needed, such as the business state, which you're actually based in. But Amazon have made it a lot simple, a lot more simple for people now won it, you know, even five years ago, it was an absolute minefield.

Reuben Mattinson:

So they've done a good job for their E commerce sellers.

Andy Splichal:

So your company, I mean it's got over 300 reviews and you got five stars with Trustpilot. How do you ensure that you're providing that level of customer satisfaction?

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, for me, I think customer satisfaction always starts with your staff satisfaction. So I think if you treat your staff really well, you know, you pay them well, you make them feel appreciated, supported, cared for, they will naturally value their work and they'll value their job. And if they value their job, they'll value the clients who come into your business. So I think for me, that's always been my starting point and I do really believe that's why we've had the excellent customer service we have. And I believe we're the highest rated sales tax company in the world now on trustpilot. And yeah, that's great, congratulations on that. Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah, I think we're up to maybe 400 plus now, so we're scaling quite fast on the reviews, which is great.

Reuben Mattinson:

And yeah, I think it just comes down to your staff and if you look after them, hopefully look after the rest and your clients will feel valued and looked after.

Andy Splichal:

So you are, you're in the UK. Is all 50 of your employees also in the UK or are you throughout other countries?

Reuben Mattinson:

We are, yes, we're UK based. We have some stuff that go as far as like the Outer Hebrides, like islands of Scotland, you know, working remotely. But we're all UK based. We obviously have Professionals and partners and registered agents who are based in the US for the reasons, you know, that we need them for, as far as just functioning efficiently in the us. But our staff as of now, which I manage and watch over in the uk. Yeah.

Andy Splichal:

Now sales tax laws, I mean they're always changing. How do you, how do you guys keep up to date? I mean there's not somebody just scouring the Internet for different changes, is there?

Reuben Mattinson:

No, I think it's, yeah, it comes quite natural. When you're so deeply in the game of sales tax and you're filing so many filings for so many clients and communicating with so many people, you naturally get the updates from the states that the states themselves are good at doing that and they have to be, you know, they're liable to make people aware of the changes. So you can imagine with our thousands of clients that we have, we have thousands of notifications from the state accounts that we're kind of partnered with and looking at. So the updates come from the states generally speaking. But we do also have third party websites we're partnered with where we keep an eye on the general updates that are coming through if anything's been missed. And we do generally have a direct line as well with the states themselves that we call in and speak to them if we really need to.

Andy Splichal:

So these last 12 to 18 months, I mean AI chat, GPT, everything's, you know, just changed. Everything. Well, not everything, but a lot of things. How has it changed what you guys are doing?

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, it's a good question because I think for me I'm a bit of a rebel of that really. I don't actually want it to change us that much as a business. I mean we have our own software now that, you know, plugs into Amazon, Shopify, pulls data and automates all of that hard work and stuff for us. But as far as our kind of day to day business, I think the reason why we've got such good reviews on trustpilot is because we have a very personal touch and I don't want to limit or reduce that kind of one on one contact and the client to staff contact that we have because I feel like again that's a real backbone of who we are and the reviews that we get. So I'm actually avoiding it for now. Andy. I think if it gets to a point where it's really, you know, it's, it's a no brainer and I have to, for the sake of profit or efficiency, then we'll maybe tap into that a bit more with customer service, but even with like blog writing as well, we want to try our best to be personal and do that and not just rely on AI for that for the time being. And I think even Google algorithms appreciate that more when you've kind of done those personal touches.

Reuben Mattinson:

So for the time being, I'm being an old soul on that one and yeah, hopefully not getting too judged for that.

Andy Splichal:

So are your clients mostly US based or non US based?

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, mostly us. Yeah. We've, we've got a large majority of U.S. clients.

Andy Splichal:

So we touched a bit about what you're doing for the non us on getting them, you know, the physical presence, a bank account, all that set up. What are the services you're offering for US based businesses?

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, I mean we firstly start with just our general compliance service. So let's have a look at your business, let's see if you are compliant and you're legally set up and you're protected. And then we'll do the actual registrations that are needed fully hands off for them, registered to the states that are needed. And then we'll do the ongoing filing as well for them. So again, they don't have to crunch the data on a monthly or quarterly basis or do any of the filing. And we'll do what's called nexus tracking. So we'll keep an eye on their sales. So when they cross over any thresholds, we actually notice that it gets flagged up automatically and will register to them so they're not constantly fretting like, oh, and my next crossover refresh, all that going to miss that.

Reuben Mattinson:

So we keep an eye on that. And then we also do, you know, company formation and ein formation for US clients as well because again, it's more popular than you'd think to register in a state where you're not living in, again to avoid state tax fees and maybe to just have a more of a virtual office feel, like I say, of mail coming in virtually and it not having to be in a physical place, saving on office fees. So we do all of that as well. And that's the kind of general overview of what we, we do for them.

Andy Splichal:

What are the popular states to register in?

Reuben Mattinson:

So I've mentioned obviously Wyoming, very popular for, you know, the lack of state fees. I'd say Delaware is probably your second most popular again for they're not being state tax. And also they're pretty good for just keeping owners of businesses anonymous and like the anonymity that can kind of come with that for people who don't want their Names plastered all over the Internet and linked to things. So people can often go down that path and choose them for that. They're a bit more expensive to actually get, get registered and get a business license than Wyoming. But those are your two main ones. I mean, when you come out of that, you've got Florida as well for similar reasons. And they're pretty reasonable to open in.

Reuben Mattinson:

And people like the excuse to visit the Sunshine State, as you can imagine. So again, it can be just preference on personal opinion of states and what states they like as well, because I know everyone's got an opinion of their favorite states across the US and that can actually play more of a part than you think.

Andy Splichal:

So who is the ideal client that if they're out there listening they should get a hold of you basically?

Reuben Mattinson:

Andy, Anyone who sells online in the U.S. absolutely anybody. So we have a huge broad audience of ideal clients. It can be people who sell a few hundred dollars a month. It can be someone who sells millions of dollars a month. We work with clients from all spectrums. But I think the ideal client is someone who actually wants their business to be compliant and protected and looked after. You know, I think that's probably the main characteristic we'd look for in a client.

Reuben Mattinson:

Someone who wants to do the right thing and is diligent in doing that for their business and for themselves.

Andy Splichal:

And how does your fees work? Is it flat fee? Is it, I mean, based on different service, I'm assuming, how does it work?

Reuben Mattinson:

Yeah, we have a lot of flat fees for registering to states, for example, which gets cheaper the more states that need to be registered. We offer kind of discounts as you need to register tomorrow. Filing again, pretty flat rate fees according to the number of states that we're having to file for. If you sell at a really high volume, we generally have a few kind of additional fees as your volume goes up in sales because we have more data to crunch but doesn't go up too high. But I guess that's the maybe the part of the fees that can vary from business to business. And then you're looking at flat rate fees again for company formation, bank account formation and all that kind of thing.

Andy Splichal:

And what's the best way to get it get a hold of you? How can they reach you?

Reuben Mattinson:

So best way, if you want to have a little peek around and find out what we're about, I would go to our website, RJM Tax exemption dot com. Check us out on trustpilot. Again you can search in a Montage pilot or have a little look around our website. You can open a ticket on our website or you can just contact us directly on support GM taxexemption.com as well.

Andy Splichal:

Well, this has been great. Is there anything else you'd like to add before we wrap it up today, Ruben?

Reuben Mattinson:

Well, I would say if people are interested and they want to, I guess get involved and they're kind of thinking, I don't, I don't want to do this in case I'm having to pay loads of money and I'm kind of worried of what's going to happen there. I would just say basically what we'll do is if you quote, you know, make, forgive me if I get this wrong, make every click count.

Andy Splichal:

Make each click count.

Reuben Mattinson:

Oh, it's close. Make each click count. So if you quote that and reach out to us on our website, then we'll give you a totally free sales tax compliance assessment, which would normally cost around $500. So you come to us and quote that, we will literally assess your entire business to give you total peace of mind of is your business compliant or not? Are you doing the right thing? Are you under registered, over registered with, you know, no fee, no obligation, just to kind of give you a peace of mind where we're happy to do that for you.

Andy Splichal:

Well, that's great. That's very generous of you. Thank you.

Reuben Mattinson:

Pleasure. Pleasure. But yeah, I've, yeah, I really enjoyed the time here, Andy. Thanks so much for having me and I hope I've added a little bit of value at least. Anyway, to your listeners.

Andy Splichal:

Yeah, thanks for coming on the show today. Ruben, for listeners. Remember, if you like this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave us an honest review. And if you'd like to connect with Ruben or RJM Tax exemption, you'll find the links in the show notes. Don't forget to quote make each click count if you would like that free audit. In addition, if you're looking for more information on growing your business, check out our Podcast Resource center available at podcast.make each click count.com. we have compiled all of our different past guests by show topic and included each of their contact information in case you would like more information on any services discussed during a previous episodes. Well, that's it for today. Remember to stay safe, keep healthy and happy marketing. I'll talk to you in the next episode.