Yes - When Done Right, SEO Still Works with Josh Bachynski

Andy Splichal:

Welcome to the Make Each Click Count podcast. This is your host, Andy Spleichel, and we are happy to welcome this week's guest to discuss today's topic, which is yes, when done right, SEO does still work. Today's guest is a co-founder and CEO, and president of SEO Copilot. He is renowned for his SEO insights gained through consulting and collaboration with Google. He has produced insightful videos for over five years and has impactful contributions continue to shape the landscape of AI and SEO. He is also the newest contributor to make each click count University. A big welcome to Josh Binsky. Hi Josh.

Josh Bachynski:

Hey, Andy. How you doing?

Andy Splichal:

I'm great. Hey, so let's dive right into it. Does SEO still work? And what would you say to those that say it no longer works? It's just all about content?

Josh Bachynski:

Yes, I am here to say I can officially say SEO does still work. I have the stats to prove it. Anybody who wants me to send you the stats, I'd be happy to do so. I also publicly put those stats out of how well my SEO was working and my particular students SEO was working and our customers. For SEO Copilot Quarterly, I do a quarterly update completely publicly so you could check that out on my YouTube channel, YouTube.com slash jbachins. J-B-A-C-H-Y-N-S. But no, it definitely still works. You just have to provide the kind of content that Google wants.

Josh Bachynski:

You have to provide the kind of content that their artificial intelligence. And now everything about SEO is starting to move into artificial intelligence, as you mentioned, and I'm sure we're going to talk a lot about. You just have to provide what their artificial intelligence thinks the user wants. So that means you need to find what is called the query intent, the intention behind that search query. What is the searcher really trying to get after? That's the kind of content that you need to write about, and you need to write that content in the most helpful expert, authoritative way. Google has an artificial intelligence that can tell whether you're an expert or not in this subject matter and what the experts in any given subject matter talk about, how they talk, what they talk about, the topics they talk about. They know how through with an artificial intelligence to sift the difference between an expert in a subject matter and someone who's just making maybe thin content or just trying to rank for a query. There's a night and day difference between those two things and so you definitely need to find those things out.

Josh Bachynski:

And how do you find those things out? Typically, you use AI to find those things out, unless you happen to be a subject matter expert with 20 years experience in that particular subject.

Andy Splichal:

So I'm curious. I mean, things in SEO, everything else is really moving quickly with AI. But how important do you believe that having a solid SEO strategy is for the success of a company online?

Josh Bachynski:

For the success of the company online, it's critical. It's job one. It's mission critical to have a SEO strategy in mind because otherwise you will have to pay for paid ads. Now, a business might want to have a robust strategy of doing both. Of course, I'm not saying you can't do both, but the prices for some of Google's ad network for certain niches is very, very expensive. And so SEO is still completely possible and it definitely should be part of any business's strategy. It does take a little bit of knowledge for sure. It takes some know how.

Josh Bachynski:

It's not like it was in 2007 where Google would rank anything because the Internet was fresh and new. Now, people have had 25 years on this Internet thing to try and make good content and get it right. So you need to sharpen your sticks and make sure you're ready for that hunt, so to speak. But it is totally doable and you definitely need to be prepared for it.

Andy Splichal:

Now, how much have you found that SEO has changed over the last year or two ever since Google's put more emphasis on the user experience?

Josh Bachynski:

I'm so glad you asked that because you're totally right. It has been this last year where there's been a night and day change in the kind of content that you can put up and how you have to cater to the user experience. As I mentioned, the query intent, the UX, the user experience, what they're asking and what you're promising, what you're going to deliver, among other things like your design, your user interface, your layout, things of that nature. These are all ranking factors for all. So secret tip here, you heard it first on the make each click count podcast, the user interface is a ranking factor for Google and the user experience, the way the users behave on your page is a ranking factor for Google, among numerous ranking factors that we cover in our courses that we do here and make each click count. Also, I cover on my YouTube channel again, YouTube.com jb shins. And let me tell you exactly why. For over 20 years, Google has had something called quality raters, and quality raters have been third party contractees who have contracted with Google, and they have manually determined and rated pages as to whether they should rank on page one for any given search query.

Josh Bachynski:

Google has recently, I don't know if you've been noticing in the news, and I'm sure your listeners have as well. Google has recently laid off tons and tons of those quality raiders, and this is because of artificial intelligence. They're now moving over the task of determining whether a page should rank on page one from a human to an artificial intelligence. And that's what I was talking about for your first question was, this is how exactly the artificial intelligence is taking over now over this last year, especially ever since October 7 and beyond the spam updates they did those times. That is all artificial intelligence. That's artificial intelligence all day, every day, right? So how do you combat this? You need to use artificial intelligence yourself. You need to have the knowledge to know what Google's looking for. You need to have the quality content that will speak to the user experience and will solve the query intent.

Josh Bachynski:

You need to stop the search, right? You need to terminate the search. You need to be the information that answers their question and so they stop searching in Google. And how do you do that? You use artificial intelligence to do that. Artificial intelligence can very easily analyze the entire query space and determine what the proper query intent is, what high quality content is going to be, what it looks like, the kind of keywords you need to say. And people have been down on SEO. I hope through the length of this podcast, people start to realize from the kind of questions and answers that we're giving here that actually it's a golden age of SEO, because not only can Google use artificial intelligence, and they do, to determine what the user needs and wants for any given search query. So can we, we can use artificial intelligence as well. And so in a way, SEO has never been easier.

Josh Bachynski:

People think SEO has never been harder. Actually, I disagree entirely. I've been doing this for 25 years. SEO has never been easier. If you're using the right AI tools and you're looking at it the right way.

Andy Splichal:

So let's talk about those tools. What AI tools are you currently using?

Josh Bachynski:

Sure. So, I mean, it might sound a little self serving, obviously, because I'm the CEO of SEO copilot, but our SEO copilot that we've built is the exact kind of tool that you need to use. And this is why we made it in this way, to determine how to serve the user. There's just this opinion in the industry that any AI content is going to be spammy or thin content or low quality content, or it's going to be something called black hat. Well, I'm here to tell you, no, that's not the case at all. It doesn't have to be low quality content. It depends on the type of AI you're using and how you're using it. So let me give you two case studies.

Josh Bachynski:

So, for example, if you go to Chat GPT and you ask it, what stocks should I buy? It's going to just tell you the opinion from two years ago of the masses of what stocks to buy. If you ask it what crypto should I buy? It's going to give you the opinion of the masses from two years ago what crypto to buy. And I'm here to give a public service announcement. Do not go to Chat GPT and ask it what stocks to buy or what crypto to buy or any kind of specialist question like that. Because Chat GPT does not have specialist knowledge, its corpus is trained on the general opinion of the common masses online. It has generalist knowledge. So the same thing applies for SEO. SEO is not generalist knowledge.

Josh Bachynski:

SEO is specialist knowledge. And you can't go to Chat GPT. And this is where people run into trouble and this is where they generate the thin content or the low quality content by just going to Chat GPT and saying, write me an article on CBD, oil for cats or whatever it is, or write me an article on how to buy cryptocurrency. And it's going to give you the lowest quality kind of article possible that is easily detectable as AI content by Google and is detected as AI content by Google because of its low quality. And John Mueller and Gary Elias from Google and Danny Sullivan have all said it doesn't really matter that it's AI content, it matters that it's thin content or low quality content, content with no expertise behind it, content with no specialization behind it, content that is not holding the user and serving the user. So we did the exact opposite thing in SEO copilot. What we did is we wrote content systems and AI systems, complex ideation, complex AI models which are talking to each other, that are not a simple, just a prompt, just a text and a prompt. Our ais are doing research.

Josh Bachynski:

They're looking at the query experience. They're looking at the query intent. They're looking at what would be high quality content. They're looking at what would make you the most helpful. They're looking at the helpful content review questions that Google asks and publicly put out. And they're looking at the product review questions, whether you're doing a product or not, which now has been updated to all service pages. They're looking to all the service page questions. And it's generating high quality content.

Josh Bachynski:

It's rebuilding the actual on page models that Google uses, such as rank brain bert, neural matching, query interpretation, TW Bert. We rebuild all these models. We find out the actual helpful words you need to put in your content that will guarantee booths and also guarantee that it's white hat quality content. So we can give you black hat efficiency. We can give you that cost savings of hundreds of pages you could generate per month. But they're all at a very high quality percentage. And so this is kind of the promise of AI that I think a lot of people are missing, that. It's not that SEO is getting harder and it's not that it's getting more specific, definitely.

Josh Bachynski:

And Google is getting more choosy, that's for sure. But you can use artificial intelligence to explode, both in terms of the amount of content you can produce, but also the quality of content you can produce as well. And so if you don't mind me giving a shameless plug, Andy, I would say go try SEO copilot. We have a 14 day free trial@seocopilotai.com. And also anyone who follows my YouTube channel, we have a 10% off coupon code you can use as well. And I'm happy to extend that to all the make each click count students as well, that coupon code as well, for 10% off of the system. And again, the system is not very expensive. So the promise of AI has everything to do with how serious the developers are in terms of maintaining quality.

Josh Bachynski:

And it is entirely possible to maintain quality. I want to dispel that myth, if anything, about this podcast today. I want to dispel the myth that all AI content has to be low quality. That's not the case at all. It is if you're using the free tools. It's definitely low quality because they don't care at all about the quality, their name is not attached to it. They don't publish stats on a regular basis of how well their users rank, such as we do. For them, it's just about getting the clicks and then selling you, monetizing you on ads.

Josh Bachynski:

For us, it's all about quality. We stand behind the product and we guarantee it'll make high quality content that has a better chance of boosting you. So that is the promise of AI.

Andy Splichal:

Well, that's great. I mean, thank you for the 10% off coupon. We'll definitely put that in the link in the show notes below my question I mean, when Chat GPT first came out, you'd ask it something, and for those who are not familiar with it, you'll be amazed. You put something in and it'll shoot you out whatever you want. You can tell it how big, but the more you get to use it as a user, you don't have to be another AI to kind of tell that it's AI created and you can use it for blog posts and stuff. But it does take a lot of, I mean, it takes rewriting from a human side to make it, I think, decent content with your system, is it good to go right out of the box? Do you suggest somebody over review it? How quality is quality that's coming out?

Josh Bachynski:

That's a great question. My answer to your either or is yes. So you can both use it out of the box, depending on the competition of the query space and your particular style of SEO. So some styles of SEO are let's produce as much content as possible and see what sticks, and then we'll redouble our efforts on those pages. We can support that kind of style of SEO and we still produce much higher quality content than any other AI system out there for that. So you're going to notice a lot more sticks than some other system, right? A lot more of our content will stick naturally on the other end, and it depends on the client you have as well. Like for some legal clients, you have to go look at the content. Legally, you're obliged and your client is obliged in some cases to look at the content afterwards to rewrite it, no matter to edit it and rewrite it, no matter who wrote it, whether an AI or a human wrote it.

Josh Bachynski:

So we can run the spectrum of both of all those scenarios. Like I said, I've been doing SEO for 25 years. I've been working in AI for reverse engineering and building ais for over 13 years. I've seen kind of both aspects of it. I see the entire spectrum of it. But our system, we use machine learning based on these statistics on how well people are ranking to automatically change our factors and our systems to continuously produce, after every single Google update, the best possible quality content. It is our mission to produce the highest possible quality content and yet automate it so you can have your cake and eat it too. So in many cases, users just produce the content out of the box.

Josh Bachynski:

They produce the URL, the meta description, the title, the h one, all of the content. They use the helpful content. They use a high quality article generator in SEO copilot, or they can go into the side and they can generate specific portions of high quality content based on the actual questions that Google asks, and they can supplement the content. We have a proprietary heat score, which no other AI does. Heat is a my own acronym based off the Google Eat acronym. Google's Eat acronym stands. It's eeat. It stands for experience, expertise, authority and trust.

Josh Bachynski:

You need to show you have experience in that page by saying the right words. And an AI is determining this right. You need to show you have expertise by using the right words on your page, not on your site. It has nothing to do with your backlinks. It has to do with the words you're saying on your site. Experts ever listen to a PhD or a professor or an academic or an expert talk about a topic? They talk about it using certain jargon and verbiage in a specific way. Google is looking for you to talk about your topic in those ways. On your page.

Josh Bachynski:

They have an AI that analyzes that and finds that we are one of the only ones, if not the only one, who has an AI that analyzes and finds that. And you have to talk about authoritatively and trustworthy way. We have a heat score which tells you it checks the competitive analysis we've checked and we know what levels you need to be at in order to rank well. Same for your semantic keywords that come from rank, brain, bert and neural matching, which again, no other AI systems look at. We rebuild you models in rank, brain, bert and neural matching, which are publicly stated ais that Google is using. And also we have a new spam score that we just put out after October 7, which rates the spam score of your URL, your title, your metascription, your h one, and your content. And it looks at the spam score of your competitors and will give you the average of your competitors on all those levels plus your spam score. So you know that your content is less spammy than your competitors and you're below a certain threshold of spamminess to ensure that this is the possible highest quality content you can make.

Josh Bachynski:

So it's a very exciting system and we're very proud to be putting it out there.

Andy Splichal:

Is there an issue with updating too many pages on your website at once with this? Does that trigger a flag?

Josh Bachynski:

No, not at all. I've been doing SEO for 25 years, and the big article sites that have millions of articles, the big blog sites that have millions of articles, they update 10,000 articles a day. So no, that's not a trigger. All my single variable testing in my underground SE university, which is where is my private mastermind group where very advanced SEO students can go. We definitely have courses for beginner SEO students here at make each click count, and I'm happy to partner with you, Andy, on those and produce more of those beginner courses. But for my private mastermind group, where we single variable test and experiment and do statistical data correlative analysis on ranking factors, I can tell you fairly conclusively that updating either adding hundreds or thousands of pages at once, or updating hundreds or thousands of pages at once is in no way a bad ranking signal or a spammy signal to Google. We've never been able to find that or prove that or indicate that is the case. And quite frankly, if you ask John Mueller about it, it happens online all the time, that people delete pages all the time and add pages all the time, they change pages all the time and in one fail swoop.

Josh Bachynski:

And remember, Google doesn't see all that at once. They only crawl bits of your site at any given time. So they're going to see that in a completely natural tiered way anyway. So no, that's not an issue. In fact, you need to go big or go home. You need to update as many pages as possible. And the bigger sites do rank better. I can tell you that conclusively.

Josh Bachynski:

You need to have a bigger site, you need to have your topical cluster, you need to have your supporting information, you need to have that robustness to show that you're an authority site. Why would Google rank a site with only one page? John Mueller has said they won't just point blank a main Google employee who gives information out. And we've tested it and we could tell you they won't just rank out single page unless it's the weakest possible niche in which anything would possibly rank. If you want to rank in anything competitive, you need to go big or go home. You need to have an authoritative site that clearly has the expertise. Therefore it should have the trust and therefore Google will have the chance of ranking it.

Andy Splichal:

When you change your content, how long do you wait to see if it's working, if it's giving you a bump or if you need to tweak it some more? What's best practices on that?

Josh Bachynski:

That's a great question. Unless your site, we've tested this extensively as well, and I'm going to say something rather surprising actually, unless your site is. There's two major Google ranking algorithms. They are really the yin and yang of ranking for Google. The one that boosts pages is rank brain, and they've talked about that a lot and they've also publicly stated the one that demotes pages is spam brain. And you need to rank brain looks at all the positive signals to boost you and will boost sites that have all the positive signals in which there's like over 200 and spam brain looks at all the spammy signals to demote you and de index you. So if any of your listeners have experienced this, if you ranking at a position on one day and then you're not there the next day, then you're there again on another day, spam brain has you. And spam Brain thinks something about your ranking factors, either on site or off site is questionable.

Josh Bachynski:

If you were ranking really highly and dropped all of a sudden, spam brain has nabbed you and they think that you are spammy in some way. They think you're thin. They think you're doing something that not quite right and there's ways to fix these things. But you need to understand that there's rank brain that's trying to rank you and there's spam brain that is trying to nab you and you need to serve both masters, so to speak. So to answer your question, sorry, can you remind me the question? Sorry, I went off and I. Tangent, dude.

Andy Splichal:

The question is how long after you've added new content can you tell if it's working?

Josh Bachynski:

Of course, yes. There's two answers. One, if your site is healthy and it has built up sufficient rank brain signals. So a new site might not have enough rank brain signals. Although a new site can have rank brain signals within 24 hours. Right. So not all new sites. This is not true for all new sites.

Josh Bachynski:

But if you've built up enough rank brain signals and you don't have enough spam brain signals that are bad signals that are demoting you, when you update your page and you fetch Google to come look at it, you should see a boost after 24 hours of the fetch. If you don't see a boost after 24 hours of the fetch.

Andy Splichal:

Wow, that's quick.

Josh Bachynski:

Yeah, you a, didn't do the right things that are actually boosting factors, or b, spam brain has you and they're delaying your indexation. They're pushing off your indexation. They don't trust your site, you don't have the heat, you're not helpful enough, you don't have the experience, you don't have the expertise, words, you're not showing your authority and therefore you're not trustworthy. But it should happen in 24 hours if you're doing the right things. And I can prove that.

Andy Splichal:

What about inbound links?

Josh Bachynski:

Inbound links, of course, continue to be an important ranking factor. They're heavily policed. Google has very intelligent artificial intelligences to nab when you're buying links and doing spammy link things. So my short answer is don't. Don't do that. Because for another reason, it's highly risky, incredibly expensive, liable to warn spam brain that you're doing it wrong. And quite frankly, it's not even one of the top three ranking factors anymore. So there are other ranking factors you can work on, like building helpful, quality content that will directly give you boosts.

Josh Bachynski:

It's not just white hat kind of public relations fluff anymore. They literally have ais which will boost you if you have the right on page signals for helpfulness and authoritativeness, expertise, that kind of thing. Because they have laid off their human quality raters and they now have an AI doing this in real time. Right. Much like you see chat, GPT can already rate content. So can Gemini, so can palm two, so can Google's AIS. Google created the Transformer. OpenAI borrowed the idea of the Transformer from Google and then kind of ate their lunch and built GPT.

Josh Bachynski:

Google was the originator of the Transformer technology. GPT stands for generative, pretrained transformer Bert stands for, which was released, like, five years before it was released, as bi directional encoder representations from Transformer. These are transformers. They transform language into math. Into language is what they transform. They encode and decode. So Google is. Don't count Google out when it comes to the AI arena.

Josh Bachynski:

And they have very powerful ais which can analyze these things. Very mean.

Andy Splichal:

We've gone over a lot of stuff. If someone is wanting to get their website better and they've never really taken any time with SEO, what advice would you give someone to get started that cost under $50?

Josh Bachynski:

That's a great question. It's really hard to answer, actually, because like any marketing endeavor, as I'm sure you would agree, Andy, and I'm sure you've been teaching in your podcast, it requires money. You do require to seed money, right? So there seems to be this opinion out there that SEO is free or should be free or can be done for free. And I'm here to tell you that's not really the case if Google is. Google is being very, very choosy. Again, it's a spectrum. Yes, you can do SEO for free if you happen to be a 30 year expert in topic XYZ. And Google knows you're a 30 year expert in topic xyz because you post it in all the forms and all the reddits and all the quoras.

Josh Bachynski:

And so they know your name is attached to your x name is attached to y website and they are the expert in topic ABC. And that website is about ABC. Yes, you could possibly rank for free if you spend 20 hours per article writing it, sculpting it, and produce one article a week. Maybe you could compete with all the other experts of topic ABC, but only if they're not producing more content than you at a faster. And I'm telling everyone this because I get this question daily from people and they're like, josh, I just got laid off from my job. I think SEO is great. I can do it from home and you could start for free. And I have to be the bad guy to sadly dispel those myths and say, no, you can't.

Josh Bachynski:

No, you can't. You're going to need money for education, you're going to need money for software. And although I just said don't buy inbound links, you're going to need money for something like that. You have to do it the right way, though, and join my mastermind group to learn what the right way is. So like any business, you need seed money, right? But to answer your question, to try and answer the spirit of the question, there is some stuff you can do for free. Stay away from chat, GPT, stay away from the free tools. They're all kind of bottom level garbage anyway. Go to seocopilotai.com, sign up for our free trial for 14 days, and the best thing you can do is do keyword discovery research.

Josh Bachynski:

You can do hours and hours for free keyword discovery research on seocopilotai.com and do niche research to find the niches you should be ranking for to begin with, I've been doing SEO for 25 years and let me tell you, Andy, what the biggest mistake is in SEO, where people completely go wrong. And what has the lion's share of failure when people fail in their SEO campaigns is that they fail to do enough niche research to begin with to find the low hanging fruit. Keywords, it's also called, that are the easiest to rank for. It's not 1999 anymore. The Internet is not new. All your competitors who are ranking for anything that makes money have been trying to do this for 25 years. So all the juicy keywords are gone. They're gone, they're taken.

Josh Bachynski:

Forget about it. Forget about ranking for payday loans, forget about ranking for herbal Viagra, forget about ranking for skin cream, or all these juicy keywords that make millions of dollars a month. And I know they do because I've worked in these niches. They are the most competitive niches possible. You're not going to just for free break into that, right? But there are niches you can break into. There's still billions of dollars to be had in SEO. It's not even close to being mined out. Not even close.

Josh Bachynski:

And so go to seocopilotai.com and do keyword discovery research. And we have an AI that analyzes over a million data points that will tell you how much money is in your niche compared to every other niche online that our thousands of customers put in tens of thousands of niches. So we have millions of data points to sort out. We could tell you if real estate makes more money than law. We could tell you if Dyson Airvax make more money than, I don't know, cryptocurrency. We can tell you that. And we can also tell you on average, how easy these queries are. And so you can do the research to find the niches that have the most money and are also the easiest to rank for.

Josh Bachynski:

And that is, I'm telling you, that is 90% of the SEO game right there. And you can get all this information for free for 14 days when you go to seocopilotai.com, let me be really specific. So what you want to do is you want to go into keyword discovery. You want to run some general reports in general areas. And whether you're doing rank and rent SEO to make money on the side or you're doing digital real estate SEO, where you're selling websites, you're building them up, getting traffic and selling them, or you're doing rank and rent, where you're ranking pages highly, then you rent them out to real estate agents or lawyers or whoever you'renting it out to and you're making money for yourself on the side as a home business kind of a thing. And or you could do that and or you're doing client SEO as an agency and the client says, I want to rank. They think it's pretty simple. You know, Josh, I've been selling Jaguar parts forever.

Josh Bachynski:

I want to rank for Jaguar parts. Maybe you don't. Maybe you don't. It's not 1999 anymore. And maybe trying to rank, maybe Jaguar parts is too hard to rank for. First off, maybe Google's not going to rank some Joe Schmo over the actual official Jaguar USA website. Think about that for a second. Who should be ranking there? That's the decision the AI is making.

Josh Bachynski:

Should I be ranking the Jaguar car company above or below Joe Schmo's Jaguar parts site? Think about that for a second, and quite frankly, maybe there are far more lucrative queries. Maybe you would be surprised there's more money behind AJ v eight 2007 Jaguar engine queries and things like that. Maybe the specificity of specific queries are going to be way easier to rank for and make way more money. So again, if there's anything anyone takes from this, go to seocopilotai.com, sign up for the 14 day free trial, and do this keyword research, because this is where 90% of SEO campaigns fail by listening to the client and what they think they should rank for. You're the SEO. Don't listen to the client. You choose what you should be ranking for because you're the expert. Go use.

Andy Splichal:

That's some great tips. Now, I had mentioned in your intro that you're the newest contributor to make each click count University with your masterclass getting started with SEO, can you take us through that masterclass and what someone could expect to learn from it?

Josh Bachynski:

Sure. So the masterclass we're going to be doing is geared for beginners. So if you have zero experience in SEO, in fact, if you have zero experience in running a web business, period, we take you all the way from ground zero to having your feet completely wet. And you're ready at that point to do some basic SEO in some general niches. So if you're running a small business, that's not too competitive a local business, especially unless local businesses that are in key locksmiths and plumbers can sometimes be competitive, but otherwise, any other local niche. Sometimes lawyers and local niches can be competitive too, but even in some of those niches as well, depending on how big your city is, we can take you completely from zero to hero. And you're going to be able to do SEO on your own. You're going to have the tools you need to do it and you're going to be able to do at a basic level, SEO.

Josh Bachynski:

And then you're also going to be at a point where you could go on to upwork. You can go into fiver and you can start reselling your SEO services very easily, right? And you can do lots of things like you could resell keyword lists, you could resell these keyword discovery lists for clients. $20 a pop takes you five minutes. You could do 100 of those a day, $2,000 a day. Right? The revenue potential is possible because AI can automate these things going on. So there's a lot of ideas here. So it could be very lucrative and very useful for small businesses who either a want to make money for themselves on the side and or they want to just rank their arborist care or whatever it is, their small business, their ecommerce business, whatever they're drop shipping, whatever they're selling. This is exactly the kind of introductory course for you to go from zero to hero and you'll be able to do some basic SEO when you're done.

Josh Bachynski:

And then after that I'll be able to give you the next steps you should take. Either join my mastermind group for the advanced knowledge, or you should be using SEO copilot to have the AI doing a lot of things for you and we can completely handhold you from zero to complete success.

Andy Splichal:

Now, I know this is going to be the first part of your SEO series. What are the next master classes you're going to release?

Josh Bachynski:

So I just released the introduction what SEO is at a general level. And again, I been doing this for 25 years, so I'm going to take it even one step back from where most people would approach it. And I'm going to tell you what it's like to be an SEO. Do you even want to be an SEO? Do you want to do SEO as a job? Is it suitable for your personality? Are you going to be super stressed out? What is it like as a job to actually do SEO day in, day out? And I compare it to your alternatives. I say if you have this kind of personality and kind of time per day and personality, maybe it'd be better if you did SEO. If you have this kind of personality or time per day, maybe it'd be better if you do paid ads. I'm going to do a completely non biased look at it and say what's best for you, and we're going to push you and help you move into the right areas so that your business will succeed. Because at the end of the day, that's all that matters, is that your business is succeeding for your marketing endeavors, whether it's organic marketing or paid marketing.

Josh Bachynski:

That's what we're going to help you do in this first course, and you're going to know pretty well what SEO is and what the background requirements for it are, and then we're going to move on. When the rubber will hit the road, we'll actually start teaching you parts of SEO.

Andy Splichal:

Now, we've talked a lot about SEO copilot. How does the fee structure work on that? Is it licensing? I guess. How does it work?

Josh Bachynski:

That's a great question. So, like I said, we have a free 14 day trial where you can do ten pages, ten AI based pages built either reports and or in the editor. And I think you have a few dozen more credits in the keyword discovery system to find the actual keywords that will work for you. And again, I cannot stress how important that original keyword discovery phase of your project is. Do not ignore it. Do not just skip over it. Then we have very reasonable pricing. Again, there's 10% off for any make each click count.

Josh Bachynski:

Customers or clients or students. I'd be happy to give that coupon code for you guys as well. In fact, I'll make you your own coupon code so we can track who's using from where. And the earliest price is. If you're like, great, Josh, I'm only making ten pages a month. I have a very small business. Then it's only $50 a month. It's very, very cheap.

Josh Bachynski:

It's not expensive at all for a low level kind of SEO like that. Our current grandfathered price, where you have a few hundred pages per month, is $144 a month, and then our agency pricing to do 500, 701,000 goes up from there for agency pricing.

Andy Splichal:

Well, this has been great. Is there anything else you'd like to add before we wrap it up today, Josh?

Josh Bachynski:

Yeah, I just want to tell people that it's not all doom and gloom. It's not that SEO is getting harder. It's just that Google is getting a bit more choosy. And quite frankly, I kind of applaud it. I mean, again, who should be ranking for the query? Jaguar parts. The Jaguar company. Who else should be ranking? If they sell Jaguar parts, they should be ranking for it, right? Google is just being more choosy and the AI is just being like, well, listen, it's not 1999 anymore. We're trying to be fair to the rankings and they're giving it to the people who have the expertise, the experience, the authority and the trust.

Josh Bachynski:

And if you're like, Josh, I don't know if I have that. We can build that up. I can show you how to build that up, both using organic SEO techniques but also using the AI that can analyze what all the other experts are saying and will have you saying the right words in the right way to sound like an expert, whether you are or not. Because quite frankly, for those seos out there who have multiple clients, we're not experts in chiropractic and we're not experts in law. We do SEO for all kinds of clients. The AI is and can get you 80% of the way there, for 80% of the topics, having the right words to say and getting you all the helpful content. So actually, the future of AI is bright. The future of AI is super positive for those people who adopt AI early.

Josh Bachynski:

And the last thing I'll say is a lot of people are scared about AI in general as well, thinking that they're going to lose their job to AI. And I'm here to say, I've been studying AI. I've been reverse engineering for 13 years, been in this business for 25, and I'm here to say that's not really going to happen. What's going to happen? AI is not going to take your job, but a smart person using a smarter AI is possibly going to take your job or your business. So I have an easy solution for you. Be the smart person who uses a smarter AI and you're going to be the one who's succeeding. It's still early in this race. It's not a fate of complete yet.

Andy Splichal:

Those are some great final words.

Josh Bachynski:

Awesome. I'm glad you liked them.

Andy Splichal:

Thanks for joining us today, Josh.

Josh Bachynski:

It's been my pleasure, Andy. Anytime.

Andy Splichal:

For listeners. Remember, if you like this episode and why wouldn't you please go to Apple Podcasts and leave us an honest review. And if you're looking for more information regarding SEO copilot or connecting with Josh, you're going to find the links in the show notes below. In addition, if you're interested in his master class, visit make each click count University where you can currently access his master class and all other content for just $19 a month. Well, that's it for today. Remember to stay safe, keep healthy and happy marketing and I'll talk to you in the next episode.