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April 15, 2022

Launching A Referral Program That Actually Works With Dominick Keenan

Launching A Referral Program That Actually Works With Dominick Keenan

This episode features Dominick Keenan, the VP of Sales at ClickBank. ClickBank for over 20 years has been a trusted global partner for businesses looking to grow online.

Within this episode, Dominick discusses what makes a referral program work well including some actionable item tips you should know to help ensure you are running a successful program.

Discover the differences between affiliate and referral programs and why every established eCommerce business should implement a referral program as a way to grow their online sales.

Dominick also details how ClickBank can integrate with your website to create a referral program that will bring you new customers and increase your overall sales.

Finally, learn what type of products do and do not work well using a referral program including some of Dominick's favorite success stories.

Episode Action Items:

To find more information about Dominick or to learn more about ClickBank visit https://www.clickbank.com/podcast to take a free quiz to see if launching an affiliate program is viable for your company.

ABOUT THE HOST:

Andy Splichal - Make Each Click Count PodcastAndy Splichal is the World's Foremost Expert on Ecommerce Growth Strategies. He is the acclaimed author of the Make Each Click Count Book Series, the Founder & Managing Partner of True Online Presence and the Founder of Make Each Click Count University. Andy was named to The Best of Los Angeles Award's Most Fascinating 100 List in both 2020 and 2021.

New episodes of the Make Each Click Count Podcast, are released each Friday and can be found on Apple Podcast, iHeart Radio, iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon Music, Google Podcasts and www.makeeachclickcount.com.

Transcript

Andy Splichal  0:02  

Welcome to The Make Each Click Count Podcast. This is your host, Andy Splichal. And we are happy to welcome this week's guest to discuss today's topic, which is affiliate programs that actually work. Today's guest is VP of sales at Clickbank who for over 20 years have been a trusted global partner for businesses looking to grow online. A big hello to Dominick Keenan. Hi, Dominick.

 

Dominick Keenan  1:14  

Hey, Andy, thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. 

 

Andy Splichal  1:16  

You're welcome. We're excited to talk to affiliates today. Yeah, absolutely. Now, just to clarify, what are affiliates and why do you believe that a company should use an affiliate program?

 

Dominick Keenan  1:28  

You know, so I guess like the textbook definition would marketers who refer customers to a product or service in exchange for a commission. But, you know, the roots of affiliate marketing have been around for a long time. I'll give you a quick example. Like I needed new tires for my truck. I went around and asked a bunch of people who drive similar trucks, whether they liked their tires or not. But you know, in our world, affiliates either operate on a CPA, they get paid for every customer that ends up buying or paid for leads Clickbank for a long time has done RevShare. So you get a portion of the sale if you're the affiliate, but that's really it. There are professionals who refer customers to businesses. 

 

Andy Splichal  2:20  

Now, a few weeks back, we had another guest come on, and was talking about creating a referral program. Now referrals are a bit similar, but I believe referrals are more like one to one, where like an affiliate maybe is a business. I guess how do you compare a referral program in terms of success possibilities?

 

Dominick Keenan  2:41  

Yeah, I mean, I would call them close cousins, I guess, to an affiliate program very similar. And there's all kinds of terms in the industry, but referral, or what I'm hearing more and more as like Ambassador programs, and a couple of our clients use Ambassador programs where they have a highly, highly branded supplement product. And they are very popular with their customers. And so they'll have customers ask them, Hey, can I get a coupon code to give my mom they should take your supplement as well or you see this, you know, refer five people and get a free T-shirt type of thing. That's what I think of when I think of referral programs. They tend to be smaller, more organic than affiliates, or at least in our world are scaled professionals, mostly on ClickBank, our professional media buyers or professional emailers. They have really tightly segmented audiences within their email lists.

 

Andy Splichal  3:46  

Now, why do you think that affiliates are so effective? I mean, what makes an affiliate program effective? And what type of Ecommerce business can have the most success using an affiliate program?

 

Dominick Keenan  4:02  

That's a good question. So why you should use affiliates. I'll tackle first affiliates are specialists in what they're doing. Well, you know, we just talked about paid media and email is primarily where our affiliates live. And a seller can't be great at everything. I've seen a lot of the entrepreneurs that I've worked with, you know, they're, they have maybe in house, Facebook media buying or in house email. That supplement company I was just talking about was phenomenal at YouTube that launched their business off the ground, but they weren't great at paid media. And so rather than trying to in house a team and now you've got more employees and all of that they can turn to affiliates and get broad broad distribution on a converting offer. Now keep in mind, these these are these are offers that are converting already, they've been well tested and optimized for affiliate traffic. So when you, when you think about as a business owner, that's looking at getting into affiliate marketing, think of your customer acquisition costs for what you're already doing, and relate that to affiliate commission for an affiliate to go out to a channel that you're not already talking to.

 

Andy Splichal  5:26  

And that's really the key right is trying to get them to go out to a channel that you're not already marketing to, I guess what comes to mind and might be an issue? What about some of the apps like your Honey, dinner, kind of an affiliate? In a way, but not really, not really, you know, I mean, from what I see not really getting me any extra eyeballs?

 

Dominick Keenan  5:53  

Yeah, Honey is,

 

Andy Splichal  5:55  

How do you group that?

 

Dominick Keenan  5:58  

Honey is an interesting one. In general, I'm not a huge fan of coupon type affiliates. For most businesses, there's some cases that will work and if I'm not a Honey user, but unfortunately, my wife is and I always, I'm always like, you know, how much data this Chrome plugin is collecting on your buying habits? But in general, the coupon type of affiliates are getting in at the last minute. It's a similar issue.

 

Andy Splichal  6:32  

 The other one, what is it? Re RetailMeNot?

 

Dominick Keenan  6:34  

Yep, exactly. It's a similar issue where somebody sees a coupon field on your order form. And that immediately prompts a lot of users to just go to Google and say, Hey, what coupon code for this product? Did that website that gave them or that app or Honey or RetailMeNot that gave them that coupon code? Did that actually get that customer they're? Probably not they saw it on social media or they read about it on a blog or their friend told them about the product. And you know, depending on the coupon code and and how much of a discount it is and the buyer intent that the customer showed up with maybe it pushed them over the edge, but maybe it didn't. Maybe you just give somebody 10% off because they spent 10 seconds Googling something. So if if I were advising a business owner on that, I would say test it with and without you know, Clickbank offers coupon codes as a feature we have several users of it but we strongly encourage people to test because you might be giving up 10% discount to get 3% more sales and at that point now we're just losing we're losing money for for nothing. I'm sure the coupon affiliate or the or the app really appreciates it but it's it's certainly worth taking a hard look at.

 

Andy Splichal  7:58  

Now with what decide you know, I decided to sign up for Clickbank but what Ecommerce platforms does Clickbank integrate? And is it hard to integrate it?

 

Dominick Keenan  8:08  

So ClickBank, Clickbank is a little bit more of a solution than just an affiliate network and to explain we're well known as an affiliate network had been around since 1998. And which is a century plus internet years for sure. And so Clickbank provides merchant processing. We provide an order form recurring billing, one click post purchase upsells affiliate tracking. So when I'm talking to a business that say, has an established brand on Shopify, a very traditional Ecommerce style. We don't we don't typically say hey, you know, plug us into Shopify, what's a lot easier to do is to stand up a Clickbank, Clickbank direct response funnel alongside of it, and then use that for your affiliate traffic besides it's a direct response type funnel is going to tend to convert at a lot higher rate than you know just a general Ecommerce store can check out all 30 of our products, affiliates, especially the larger cold traffic affiliates aren't crazy about sending traffic to a store like that, because there's so many ways to click out. You think about, you know, some of the Shopify style  Ecommerce stores that you see, there's gonna be a links to our blog and our story about you know, about us and how our founders got started. And here's our Twitter handle. I you know, in general, affiliates aren't gonna be crazy about that, let's let's, let's make this convert. And so rather than trying to make your Shopify store that's really branded Ecommerce experience, try to kind of fit a direct response model and then drive affiliate traffic to it you're just going to make it do something it's not supposed to do. So instead we say you know stand both of them up alongside of each other use Clickbank for customer acquisition because on Clickbank you get the customer data. And then if you want to re monetize that client later or that customer later on down the line after they bought through that affiliate funnel, then monetize them in that Ecommerce environment because they've, the customer now knows you and is comfortable with you and liked your product well enough that they're going to come back and instead of getting distracted by your founding story in your Twitter handle, they're gonna go find that product in and purchase from you.

 

Andy Splichal  10:41  

Interesting. So you're setting up just a Product Funnel for the clients based on your templates in your offering merchant processing on it. Who owns the customer?

 

Dominick Keenan  10:55  

So the seller, the vendor owns the customer. 

 

Andy Splichal  10:58  

Because it makes a big issue with Amazon, right? Because it's, 

 

Dominick Keenan  11:02  

Yep.

 

Andy Splichal  11:02  

It's a, you know, streamlined to order, but you don't own the customer. So I was just wondering about that.

 

Dominick Keenan  11:08  

Yeah, you know, you bring up a great point with Amazon, Andy and I, in talking to physical product sellers, we sell a fair number of branded supplements on Clickbank our sellers do. And I always refer to it as a three legged stool. You know, you have your direct response funnel on ClickBank, which is going to acquire your customers, then you have your Ecommerce Store where you're going to re monetize those customers after you've acquired them. But you're going to have some portion of customers that no matter what are going to immediately search for you on Amazon and not to reference my wife again, she'd be pissed if if she knew I was talking about her on a podcast, but I watch her shop online, and she'll go find something that she likes. Right. And yeah, I can see it's clearly a Shopify store. Well, she's so addicted to Prime Delivery, that she'll immediately go to Amazon and buy it, even if it's more expensive. So I usually encourage if if sellers have the bandwidth to set up all three, set up all three because you should get that customer who no matter what is only going to buy if it's available on Amazon. And one thing I'm seeing more and more people do because there's a strong, like you mentioned, you don't get the customer data, there's a strong disadvantage to selling on Amazon, you don't get an opportunity to monetize that customer after, after the purchase.

 

Andy Splichal  12:36  

You've mentioned the the three legs. So Amazon, your own site and the funnel?

 

Dominick Keenan  12:45  

Yep, exactly. And then on Amazon, you know, that's your one chance to monetize that customer, charge them a little bit more. That's the benefit of it. One of the best brands that I've worked with had all three of those. And I want to say to get, you know, one, one bottle of their supplement through their direct response funnel, which had upsells, and they get the email. So they knew that the average order value, the LTV of that customer was higher. The product on Amazon was 30% more expensive to make up for that missed out LTV that they weren't ever going to get because they're not going to know who that customer is.

 

Andy Splichal  13:22  

You know something's bothering me. Don't chairs have four legs? 

 

Dominick Keenan  13:28  

They too. 

 

Andy Splichal  13:30  

So where's our fourth leg in this analogy?

 

Dominick Keenan  13:34  

Three Legged barstool. Too many drinks while you're sitting on it.

 

Andy Splichal  13:38  

Hey, so are there any products that don't lend themselves well to using affiliates?

 

Dominick Keenan  13:44  

Yeah, there are. One that comes to mind actually just came across my desk earlier this week. One of our employees had had somebody reached out to him and asked them if they could sell a $5,000 air compressor on Clickbank and the air compressor is specific to the welding industry. And, you know, sure we can sell it, there's just probably not going to be any affiliates out there to promote it. And that's an example of a product that has low margin. It doesn't have broad appeal. So it's going to have a really low conversion rate. I mean, if I got targeted for that air compressor with a Facebook ad, I'm not I'm not buying it. And it's highly niche. It there's just no no broad market appeal to it. The other type of business is low dollar, low margin type businesses, they may have broad appeal. An example of this I saw a couple of months ago was a pretty interesting t shirt store. I want to say it costs like 10 or $12 to buy a t-shirt from them. And their whole shtick was that the designs that they have are only available, it was either today or this week. So there was this instilled sense of urgency. And at 12 bucks for one t-shirt, especially in an Ecommerce environment, there's just not enough margin to pay an affiliate enough to get any kind of scale because $12 for a T-shirt. I mean, you've got the cost of goods, you've got the fulfillment, all the overhead of that T-shirt Company. You know, you're probably left with 50 cents in margin. I don't know their business, but it's not not a lot. So those would be two two examples of products that don't, don't lend themselves well.

 

Andy Splichal  15:46  

So on the subject of margin, what type of commission do most of your clients need to offer an affiliate to make the affiliates excited about working with them?

 

Dominick Keenan  15:56  

I show it when we're, there's 10s of 1000s of affiliates that work with ClickBank. When we talk, a lot of people ask that question, they're asking how do I work with the best affiliates, the types that are driving six figures a day, in general to get to those highly scaled affiliates for them to for them to be able to make money on it? In general, they're going to need to see a conversion rate of around 1% and $120 commission plus. One thing to keep in mind, though, when considering commission to pay affiliates, is every every seller out there

 

Andy Splichal  16:40  

It's not, it's not percentage, they're more looking at how much they can make per day?

 

Dominick Keenan  16:44  

Oh, yeah. So we they'll back down, we pay, we can pay in a percentage in a RevShare. But they'll back it out to either an earnings per click amount or a net commission amount on average per customer. 

 

Andy Splichal  17:00  

So what are those? What are those numbers they're looking for? 

 

Dominick Keenan  17:03  

Usually around $120 Plus.

 

Andy Splichal  17:05  

But what's that come out to like pay per click? I mean, what are they looking for per per visitor that they're sending to the funnel? Or or to the website?

 

Dominick Keenan  17:13  

Oh, 25 to 50 cents? I would guess. Yeah. Obviously depends on the on the audience that it's targeting. But I in talking about commission, I always say every business is competing for customers, obviously. But in the affiliate world, every business is also competing for affiliates just as much. So in order to make themselves as appealing as possible, it's squeezing margins elsewhere, being able to pay a little bit more than the next guy to attract that attract that affiliate, which ultimately attracts that broader market of customers.

 

Andy Splichal  17:53  

So to me, it almost sounds like these affiliates are more like influencers than they are like your RetailMeNot.

 

Dominick Keenan  18:02  

Yeah, yeah. So and that goes back to your question about referral programs, the influencer market is pretty, pretty interesting. We don't work with a ton of traditional influencers. For me, I always kind of think of like, Kim Kardashian or somebody like that. 

 

Andy Splichal  18:18  

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

 

Dominick Keenan  18:20  

And I've had several comments, I travel quite a bit. I've had several conversations with people in that world. And it's, it's a little bit different, because this is very direct performance marketing. To our affiliates don't get paid unless there's a sale that occurs. In the influencer world, there's still a lot of, you know, it's $1,000 for me to post something or you pay a flat fee for whatever it may be. The performance though, is disconnected, you try to infer what performance is going to be based on the size of their audience and, and how prior posts have worked. But it's still you're not completely aligned in your objectives. The influencer is seeking to broaden their run their market and or broaden their, their reach and get as many sponsorship deals as they can. Or in this case, the affiliates are directly interested in making a sale. Otherwise they don't get paid.

 

Andy Splichal  19:23  

 Yeah, it almost sounds like a CPM versus a CPC model.

 

Dominick Keenan  19:26  

Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. 

 

Andy Splichal  19:29  

Now, do you have a favorite success story of one of your clients that you could share?

 

Dominick Keenan  19:34  

Oh, yeah, I got a bunch of them. But your audience probably doesn't want to listen to all those stories ,right. I I do have actually one that I who's a really good friend of mine now. You're I'm sure you're familiar with the Traffic and Conversion conference down in San Diego. And a couple years ago, I was down there at we had a VIP room which was To open your what we call the platinum clients are our highest level vendors and affiliates. And I don't remember who was speaking. But it was somebody that a lot of a lot of people wanted to come in and see there's a smaller room right about 100 people. And we had all kinds of people trying to sneak in. And at one point this, this YouTube influencer comes in, he's got like his mic boom guy, and like a couple guys with lights and everything. So we had to ask him to leave. And so I got sent over to, to guard the door if you will,

 

Andy Splichal  20:36  

You were the bouncer? 

 

Dominick Keenan  20:37  

Yeah. It was, it was not the best job. So I kicked a couple of people out and in walks in walks this woman very, very nice. And she doesn't have the right tag on her badge to be in the room. So I told her, you know, I'm really sorry, but we can't can't do this. And she's like, I'm not gonna do anything. I'm just gonna sit in the back of the room and listen, and she was just so pleasant that I'm like, Yeah, okay, whatever. Nobody's gonna notice. What she ended up being very quiet stayed out of the way. And then after it was over, she went around and met everybody in the room and asked them what they do if they had any advice for her. She was a upstart entrepreneur with a online business and the connections that she was able to make, not just in our VIP room, but throughout that whole event was phenomenal. I mean, she's a, she's sold 10s of millions of dollars of products through through the ClickBank platform over the last four or five years. But I just remember being so impressed, because I'm kind of a forced extrovert, like, I don't like going into a room cold and not knowing anybody. And I've cheated, I become good friends, I found out she's that way too. But she knew that the success of her business relied very heavily on the relationships that she built at events like that. So she forced herself to go in there, introduce herself to people be pleasant ask questions. I mean, you got some of the best marketers at the conference all in one room, you might as well find out what they think. And I, you know, I love hanging out with her now, because it's just a phenomenal story, somebody that really ground their house off to build those relationships and continues to maintain them to to this day.

 

Andy Splichal  22:32  

What type of products did she have success with, with Click ClickBank?

 

Dominick Keenan  22:36  

Her business is it's a yoga product for people that suffer with back pain. She was a yoga instructor who had had back pain issues, most of her life. And she it's a very high quality product, it's we keep a close eye on return rates to make sure that the types of products we're selling are, are good, hers are extremely low and have phenomenal reviews, but just very genuine person has come through in her product, because it's her teaching, teaching the yoga courses.

 

Andy Splichal  23:13  

So what are some of the common mistakes that companies might make when launching an affiliate program?

 

Dominick Keenan  23:20  

Well, any company, any company that's considering launching an affiliate program, I would certainly say, consider the affiliate program as a channel. It's not. I've seen it several times where people Oh, yeah, we use affiliates. And there's like a little affiliate link at the bottom of the footer on their page. And it goes to, yeah, email affiliates@whatever.com. If you're interested in promoting, that's not going to work. There's not affiliates out there just waiting for you to put your your offer out there available to affiliates. It requires a commitment to as a channel to it as a channel and no channels free, you know, requires investment in time. But beyond that mindset is several things that come to mind. Probably one of the worst ones is testing and optimizing your sales pages on affiliate traffic. They need to be tested and optimized prior to going to affiliates because this traffic costs them money. They're not they're not interested in sending that traffic to something that's that's not going to convert. I would certainly recommend that people hired affiliate Manager, you can get somebody part time or if you have someone else.

 

Andy Splichal  24:40  

 Is that a full time job if you wanted to bring somebody in house?

 

Dominick Keenan  24:43  

For bigger businesses, it's worth it to bring somebody in full time you know, if you're just getting started, you don't necessarily have to, but with a company, there's a couple of platforms like Clickbank where we handle all the payouts and we make sure all the tax forms go to affiliates and everything so turn that affiliate manager into, rather than somebody who's calculating affiliate commission and making sure that everybody got their wire, their ACH and the monies proper, properly distributed and all of that. Instead, take that off their plate and have them become an affiliate relationship manager really get to know who those people are, what their traffic sources are, what works for their audience, so that you can provide them the best opportunity to make your offer convert. And also, if you're really responsive, I mean, there's a, there's a lot of offers that are hitting affiliates up for traffic all the time. But if your affiliate manager, or you as the business owner, is the most responsive person, and gets exactly the email swipe that they need, or the image or the creative or the or the custom landing page that they need right away. It's that much less hassle. And they know that they can come to you anytime they have an issue. It's funny, I'll see affiliates to promote stuff that doesn't have quite their earnings have something else that they could promote, but they just know that that that seller is in a is it's going to help them out. And it's going to be so much easier to work with. I'd also say a good affiliate tools page is pretty critical. It just goes again, to the ease of use. And I mean, keep in mind, what we talked about earlier, every seller is competing for affiliates. So we want to make this as easy as possible. And a couple of things that I notice on affiliate tools pages that do really well is right at the top, your affiliate manager bio, or a picture of them in their contact info, we want to be able to get get in touch right away, preferably like email, Skype and phone something that if they need it right now they can, they can ping that person. And then beyond that a funnel diagram with links to the different pages within your funnel. So in Clickbank there's post purchase upsells. And in order for an affiliate to be able to see post purchase upsell pages, they're gonna have to buy the product, just diagram it out for them, put links to those pages, so they can see what they're doing, they can customize the messaging that they're providing their audience better. And also, transparency helps like upsell number one, just say it converts it 5% average take rate, and then here's what it's worth, here's the total value of the entire funnel. Transparency will go a long way in winning the trust of those guys. And then I would also include like, all the promotional collateral, email, swipe, copy, images, all of that. And then lastly, would be any terms and conditions you have, you know, if you have a highly branded product, and you don't want to compete with that person on search, just say we don't allow any affiliates to brand bid on our names or any of these terms. And if you find somebody doing that it shouldn't affiliate managers should be checking, you know, not every day, but it may be every month, if you find somebody doing that go back to the network, because I know, not just at our network, but at just about every network. I've I've interacted with, they have no patience for that. So if they're violating the terms and conditions, you told them exactly what it was, and it shouldn't be a problem. And then the last thing I would say is, as you start off building your affiliate affiliate program, I wouldn't compare a new offer to the top of the market. Those offers that are selling, you know, hundreds of 1000s of dollars a day. They aren't just one hit wonders where somebody got into ClickFunnels yesterday and created something that was a miracle hit. I can't remember what book it was. But it talks about like the flywheel of success. And it doesn't just start spinning instantly. It it takes, you know, 

 

Andy Splichal  29:12  

Built to last, buil to last.

 

Dominick Keenan  29:14  

Yeah, that's right. It takes it takes work over time. And oftentimes we're just seeing this product that is absolutely killing it in the market. Well, I know a lot of these guys backstories like they had a ton of failure. So I wouldn't I wouldn't compare an upstart affiliate program to one of those.

 

Andy Splichal  29:34  

Now that's yeah, that's a lot of stuff. I mean, there's a lot to invest in it as far as not only money but time. If you use click banks, are all those tools given? Do you still need an affiliate manager? How How does that come together?

 

Dominick Keenan  29:53  

So I you know, I certainly recommend that that each seller either build the relationship So the affiliates themselves directly or have an affiliate manager at Clickbank, we'll make introductions. I mean, we obviously want to see more transactions. So we have an entire affiliate manager team that is making recommendations to affiliates. You know, we see you promoted this offer and did well, here's this similar offer that would work well with your audience. But it's it's pretty critical that the vendor themselves or or somebody on their team establish those those relationships for them. We're talking about there's 90 something 1000 active affiliates on Clickbank you know, we're we're certainly not able to build a relationship for everybody with that number.

 

Andy Splichal  30:44  

How big does a company need to be before they should start to look at an affiliate program? I mean, is there a rule of thumb, should they be doing at least x amount per month?

 

Dominick Keenan  30:56  

Oh, boy, that's a good question. I don't know that I have a great answer for you on that, Andy, because it's, it varies based on the on the product and the way it converts. I, I would just say, I would focus on ensuring that it converts regardless of volume, you know, if you have a $10,000 your business, but you know your numbers, and you're dialed in on what your conversion rates are, particularly if it works on cold traffic, it's ready to scale. But I've also seen, you know, 10 $20 million businesses that just don't get that concept. And regardless of how big they become, they're just not willing to commit to that affiliate affiliate path.

 

Andy Splichal  31:44  

Now, you had mentioned the Jim Collins book, but personally, are there any business books out there that you can attribute to your journey as an entrepreneur?

 

Dominick Keenan  31:52  

Oh, man, I'm, I'm a big reader. I love books. But there's a couple that come to mind. And I don't know that this is necessarily an entrepreneur book, but it made a huge impact on my life. It's a little cliche, but the book Always Make Your Bed. It's also a famous speech given by Admiral McRaven. But it instilled a lot of I was a pretty disciplined person already. But it instilled a lot of discipline for me and made it relatable. A book that I just recently read that I absolutely loved is a book called Alchemy by Rory Sutherland. Have you, have you heard of this one, Andy?

 

Andy Splichal  32:34  

No, I haven't. I've heard I think there's an Alchemy book that just came out a couple of years ago by Dan Kennedy, is what I thought you were gonna say, but,

 

Dominick Keenan  32:40  

Oh, I didn't I hadn't realized Dan and I had done on it. Yeah, maybe the same title. But Rory was a, a employee at a big ad agency and in the UK, kind of think like madmen ish. And it's interesting reading through all of his stories, like how to get more subway writers for the London subway and things like that. But I was reading it more for the entertainment value. And then I realized a lot of the marketing tactics that we we see our clients use, it particularly in direct response marketing, or what they were doing in the real world, you know, when it came to billboards or product container design and things like that. So it's very interesting to see it translated back into the pre internet world. And there's some great takeaways from that. And then the last one in the direct response world, particularly if you think you know, if you have an Ecommerce store and you're thinking about getting into the direct response world, I highly recommend Russells Brunson's Dotcom Secrets. That ebooks got to be 8 or 10 years old now. But it does a really good job of introducing the funnel style sales pages in comparison to the the bigger Ecommerce Shopify type stores.

 

Andy Splichal  34:04  

Now you had mentioned yeah, Russell Brunson spoke and you did referenced ClickFunnels earlier is that what you are building the funnels on using a yes is Clickfunnels?

 

Dominick Keenan  34:17  

Yeah, Clickbank and ClickFunnels integrate we're actually our offices are in the same city and know those guys pretty well. So there are a lot of mutual users. We also we don't we're agnostic when it comes to where you want to host your sales pages, the sales pages are are owned by the seller we review them to make sure that they're not you know, getting sideways with any regulators or making ridiculous claims. But the sales pages are owned by the seller oftentimes ClickFunnels is it is a great solution for those guys.

 

Andy Splichal  34:51  

So do you give them, your clients who are building the funnels? Are you giving them recommendations or templates or is that is that they're deal they need to make you know you're you're kind of hosting and putting everything together but you're not really looking at it the pages that are promoting?

 

Dominick Keenan  35:08  

Yeah, that's that's that's for them to decide. Oftentimes, I recommend ClickFunnels very frequently easy to use drag and drop. For some of the bigger guys where they they need they have a lot of traffic hitting it, they'll have a developer custom build everything for them. But ClickFunnels in my mind is generally the best place to get started and their templating is is good, you know, especially if this is your first foray into direct response funnels.

 

Andy Splichal  35:42  

So what problems is Clickbank solving for for his clients and how does Clickbank stand apart from the competition?

 

Dominick Keenan  35:51  

Well, that you know, Clickbank has a large affiliate network. And like I mentioned, that's probably what we're most known for. But beyond that, we we have to we provide the merchant processing, so we're able to scale really quickly, I have one client and good friend who doesn't attend a launch every year and so on. You know, Monday he processed $0 through that, that that account on Clickbank and on Tuesday, he processed 3.4 million. And so, you know, you have essentially unlimited scale processing. But beyond that the One Click Upsell functionality is is really good. It allows for dynamic upsells and down cells really maximize that day one cart value out of out of the customers that come through, which in turn allows you to pay more affiliates to acquire more customers. But also we take care of some of the the back office headache. So Clickbank collects the money at time of transaction and automatically splits splits it between the affiliate in the vendor, there may be a JV partner in there, say like a copywriter for the seller gets 20% or whatever we split all of that up so that it's paid correctly on time every time up to twice a week. That way nobody's invoicing anybody. And the other thing too is if you have saved got a an affiliate in Cyprus, you know, you don't you don't know them, you don't necessarily trust them, like it's a business relationship. And so, Clickbank takes care of all of that where all of its paid. You don't have to trust them. But you already know you gonna get paid.

 

Andy Splichal  37:44  

What about the tax piece? 

 

Dominick Keenan  37:46  

Yeah, that's a that's a, something we spent a lot of time working on. We do collect and remit all sales tax domestically. And that or GST tax. Internationally, it's a that is a heavy lift, we spent a lot of time on it. But it's it's an important thing for growing businesses to think about, especially in light of there's a Supreme Court case two, three years ago called the wayfarer decision, which allows each state to regulate tax, how it chooses to so there's no more saying, Oh, I'm a I'm a Washington company, so I don't need to pay tax in Florida. Well, if you're doing business in Florida, the Florida government will think very differently about that.

 

Andy Splichal  38:30  

So who is the perfect client for Clickbank?

 

Dominick Keenan  38:35  

You know, I'd say a converting offer with broad audience appeal will get the most traction on our on our affiliate network. Now that's not to say, I mean, we've got niche affiliates that will promote a lot I tend to think of kind of the bigger health and fitness type offers where we're self help offers where it's, you know, supplements that are just very popular at the moment. But one of my favorite offers out there is a woodworking offer. It's been around for about 12 years, I think, done really well. It's called Ted's plans. You can find it online, they're phenomenal business and the guy just attracts at least a couple of 1000 smaller affiliates that consistently promote him. So that's why I say broad audience appeal is most likely to be successful.

 

Andy Splichal  39:30  

Now how can an interested listener perfect or not learn more about working with you?

 

Dominick Keenan  39:36  

Yeah, so go over to clickbank.com/podcast and there's a couple of quick questions on there and we'll get get connected from there. Click that you know if you're kind of wondering if it's if it's right for you, not Clickbank. Our team is really active on social media posts, a lot of great content, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, whatever the next new social media is. You can connect with me directly on LinkedIn if you prefer. And also one other thing I'd add Andy is you know if if if you look at Clickbank and you're like, Ah, it's not quite right for my business there's there's a lot of affiliate networks out there some of them more niche than others, you know, just because Clickbank is not the right place for you doesn't mean that affiliate marketing isn't the right thing for you. 

 

Andy Splichal  40:25  

Well, this has been great. Is there anything else you'd like to add before we wrap it up today?

 

Dominick Keenan  40:28  

 I, the only thing I'd say you know, going back to that that story we talked about earlier about the woman and in the VIP room, relationships are everything, it's worth it, go go to that conference, meet as many people as you can, you know, buy, buy that that person a drink. That's, that's how most of the most successful people I've seen are able to pull it off.

 

Andy Splichal  40:51  

Well, this has been great. Thank you again for joining us today, Dominick.

 

Dominick Keenan  40:54  

Yeah, thank you, Andy. I really appreciate it.

 

Andy Splichal  40:56  

Well for listeners remember if you liked this episode, please go to Apple podcasts and leave us an honest review. And if you're looking for more information regarding Clickbank or connecting with Dominick, you will find the links in the show notes below. And in addition, if you're looking for more information on growing your business, check out our all new Podcasts Resource Center available at 

 www.makeeachclickcount.com. We have compiled all our different past guests by show topic get included each have their contact information, in case you would like more information on any of the services that have been discussed during previous episodes. That's it for today. Remember to stay safe, keep healthy and happy marketing and I will talk to you in the next episode.